Working AND Teaching in Blockchain with Ayesha Kiani

published on August 2, 2020

Hey there what's going on it is rob paone aka crypto bobby and welcome to another episode of the proof of talent podcast today we have a special guest it is aisha kiani who funny enough is the first placement that i ever made

At proof of talent so we helped her find her most recent job but she's been working in the crypto industry since 2016 which is probably before most people have even

Heard of cryptocurrency or were investing in it and she was working full-time in the industry and we had a really great opportunity to talk to her about a number of different things

Like i said she's been working in the industry since 2016 she started working at singular dtv which is a spoke of of consensus and then also worked at republic crypto republic which is a

Regulated platform that does a lot of work around security tokens and most recently she is the vp of business development at ledger prime which is a quantitative hedge fund based in

New york city so we got a great chance to talk to her about how the industry has progressed since 2016 and the different companies and roles that she's worked at but also a really interesting thing is she is an

Adjunct professor at nyu teaching a course around blockchain so we got a chance to chat a little bit about what it's like to teach a course to undergraduate students

About blockchain technology what that means the guest lectures that she brings in the topics that students are most interested in and a lot more so hope you enjoy this

Episode with aisha kiani as always this episode is brought to you by proof of talent we are a recruiting firm that work exclusively with companies in the blockchain and cryptocurrency space

So if you are looking for a new job in the blockchain or cryptocurrency industry or if you're a company that is hiring please feel free to reach out to us at any point in time

Proof of talent dot co all the info is in the podcast or youtube description thanks so much for your time let's hop into that interview with aisha i had been in tech for prior to two years and i had

Started seeing the word blockchain emerge in various uh newsletters that i followed but i stumbled upon a conference uh at rise new york and that conference was being held by

Emin uh you know consider of ava and you know i was like okay this sounds very interesting i'll keep an eye out and a couple of months down the lane i saw a job posting within my own network which was

At consensus through you know a female colleague and i reached out to her and she said look you know it's a very early stage company it's very early role they need help with operations and all i

Could just think of was consensus and blockchain and i was like whatever it is like i had done you know a couple of early stage projects by then like i had run a restaurant

Um with my mother you know i had done a lot of non-profit fundraising despite of the fact that i have a corporate background but i was part of an ai's early stage startup at that

So you know seen it all been there and done it all i thought that i could pick some bring some sort of a skill set to consensus and singular dtv at that point um so i got in communications

With the founders of singular dtv uh back then and we exchanged a couple of emails and all i knew is that i just wanted to get my foot in the door and the funny thing is i'll bring this up now

Uh when the cfo of singular dtv at that time said hey do you know can you like set up an account on coinbase i was literally like what's coinbase and uh he said well

It's enough that you'll accept crypto through like i was that much of a new and you know we often see a lot of these experts walking around and saying that oh they got into bitcoin in 2012 and 2013

Um when at that time bitcoin had much of a you know uh reputation with silk road so no i i say that look at that time it it wasn't looking good to me but i was very much intrigued in 2016 when

The emergence of blockchain had like popped up in like you know the normal or advanced tech conversation it's so early back in 2016 you know lots of things were just getting off the ground consensus as well

Um and kind of how how has the industry changed in your mind you know since 2016 there's been a lot more companies a lot more building a lot more organization um you know what

Would you pick out as some of the biggest things that have changed since the early days in 2016 i mean so aside from the fact that the friends that i had in the industry in 2016 i'm still friends

With them and they all are still in the industry but i see a lot of new talent now um and talent from like traditional backgrounds it's not um i mean even at my own firm

Uh ledger prime they all come from traditional asset background so there has been a shift of talent i think there's been a lot of acceptance uh back in the day

You know crypto was still very much looked down upon um that is shady it's not gonna go anywhere you know you're wasting your time that reputation has

Changed quite a lot um you do see a lot of traditional you know traditional institutions and you know workers from there showing a lot of interest around it but no one wants to

Admit that they're working in it um everyone would just say that look we have an r d division that's secretly working on blockchain uh but that's all we know and they don't

Like to release it you know all we know is that they probably could be trading they probably could be building their own chain or they probably could be talking to an existing chain um you know uh

To make it work uh but no one no one is looking down upon it anymore and i think there's one thing that i thoroughly enjoy about blockchain as a whole is it's still a very small network-driven

Community uh which makes it great to work in it uh you know like if i if i if i want to you know get to someone at an exchange i would have a friend who would make that intro so

That that part of it is something that i thoroughly enjoy every single given day yeah i think that's a it's a great point too the the industry is i think obviously growing quite a bit but

When you look at the like degrees of separation for somebody you know once you've been in the industry i think for a specific amount of time like the degrees of separation between you and almost anybody in the

Industry is usually like one maybe like two people maximum away like you're always kind of able to get that intro which is fantastic looking at your background overall so

You started your career at singular dtv consensus and you also worked at republic and now you're at ledger prime so on your on your third company in in in the crypto world so it seems like for you you know outside of

Just the the network itself the the industry has some some staying power and some interest what else do you like about working in the crypto industry in particular outside of

Just kind of the the close proximity and network in general does anything else going to stick out to you so i think like it's been a great great great and probably the best learning curve for me

You know through and through i've i've enjoyed a challenging work environment but when i was at singular dtui you know at that time we worked very closely with consensus like we were literally

In brooklyn so you know seeing their ico and then seeing other icos that were happening under consensus right the shift of ethereum happened in front of my eyes i still remember the

Day ethereum touched hundred for the first time it was at the ethereal summit in 2017 so you know given that how ethereum was and there's still one of the most

Promising technology out there but then seeing the rise of other change right like opa dot file you know dfinity all of these emerging uh that's that's that's been great to see

Um the other thing is like shifting off the token economics uh back in the day you know it was you could just raise their token on uh you know there was deutschland there's still dogecoin which has been doing

Phenomenally well so uh but then you know regulators came into place and uh you know you know the entire debate between utility and security token so that's

When i thought that it was a good time to move out of consensus because uh consensus for the longest time has strongly believed in the uttermost decentralization

So and republic was working on frameworks to launch security tokens or regulated coin offerings so get to republic again you know launch props get built you know their

Crypto platform uh source some deals to launch on crypto fundraise for the first secure republic token definitely was one of the first security tokens um so fundraised for that

Um you know the entire hype around security took the day uh that how it was going to be the next best thing you know happening to crypto and then seeing the market shift from it so

Um you know even though we had a couple of strong um you know security token raises we had open finance we had uh i'm forgetting the company's name that were tokenizing digital assets sorry traditional assets uh how

You know it started drying up because no one was realizing that even though if you were to tokenize a traditional asset it's still a security so it's still going to be only bought up by accredited

Investor so no one got that like no one was thinking hard on it but people just wanted to build security token um so then i ended up you know taking some time off but by

That time i had you know one thing that's thoroughly promising in the long run in the space is all the protocols that are upcoming uh and all the protocols that are being

Built right now um that's that's a very promising space but i also think that we need to give them good seven to ten years in order to be absolutely functional the

Way we want them to be it's it's not going to be overnight magic uh it's not you know it's not going to be the most perfect thing by tomorrow and then

Other side of things the tokens that we've seen um so yeah so come so getting to ledger prime uh you know after public taking after taking some time off for my maternity

Opposite end of things where i see all of the tokens that have launched in past four years trade and one thing very surprising to see which isn't very surprising for like

You know anyone who's been industry for a very long time that the top 10 are still the one that got launched years ago it's it's aside from a couple that are uh that have gained steam over time

The top 10 tokens are still bitcoin ethereum xrp e you know eos and whatnot so from a traditional perspective they got like they got it you know a head way on it

From the traditional perspective strictly um so i think it's also important the point i'm trying to make is it's very important to divide the industry into two

Uh segments one is the trading which the tokens trade the tokens you know that are generating revenue or generating you know revenue for funds hedge funds or

Venture funds and then the platforms that are being built um so i think it's very important to provide the two and you know focus on both of them differently

Yeah and and i would say it's interesting and you brought up a nice point too just as far as like how long it takes and i kind of like laugh a little bit thinking about security tokens now and

Also like decentralized exchanges too like having worked at air swap in uh 20 like early 2018 and and kind of keeping track of everything in 2017 like 2018

Was supposed to be like the year of the decentralized exchanges and it just wasn't because it was too early now i think i just saw there's you know a quarter of a billion dollars on uh

Curve finance and balancer and all these decentralized exchanges are starting to take off and doing really well like two years into it in 2028 like late 2018 2019 security tokens had that huge narrative and that

Was kind of really powering that sector and that has just gone basically nowhere for the time being but it just might be early again there and like you said with the protocols a

Lot of these things need you know three four five years in some cases to kind of catch up to the hype but we're starting to see some of that materialize especially in places like

These decentralized exchanges which is kind of cool to see happen in in real time and then the other thing is like one thing that we often have been saying in the trading firms is um i remember when stickler did tv by

The way launched its uh d5 exchange a decentralized exchange and decks uh i don't even remember the name of it i don't think uh they'd still have it around and i literally laughed i was like this

Isn't going to go anywhere but now when i speak to other uh these texas i'm like you guys this the this idea has been around for a while like i mean i saw it at singularity tv but the market has shifted right like

There's so many coins that are emerging that need platforms to launch that you need to bypass the traditional you know exchanges that put them through and you know if uniswab is doing a better job than you know launching

State or whatever it's going to launch next then i you know there's definitely a market for it um and then the other thing that we've been saying quite often

Internally is that if there's going to um if there's going to be one thing that's going to bring absolute decentralization into uh crypto trading uh that's defy protocols uh how they do it

Uh you know we all are like eyes open into it uh you know x margin has come up with a great solution uh all eyes and ears onto it like who's going to build next we've spoken to a couple of

These d5 uh options protocols pretty interesting like the idea of it it's it's it's very interesting you know what they're thinking on what they're working on um the first ones to make it an absolute

Decentralized you know complied you know regulated fields so i think that's that's one rise that you know i'm keeping my eyes open on curious uh you know you're the vp

Of business development at legend prime and a lot of our listeners um you know come from traditional finance or work in traditional markets right now um and that kind of seems like it would

Be an interesting place to transition to right to work at a quant hedge fund you know working in business development partnerships what is your you know day-to-day role the objective of your role as the vp

There um like so uh so first of all ledger prime it's a very very small fun and uh you know when even rob was making the

Intro uh one of the one of the things that i think landed me the job was i had been part of like you know i've brought this up before i've been part of a few early stage companies where

I know how to wear multiple hats by now um and i'm i'm an absolute perfect generalist so my role revolves a lot around operations and business development and marketing or you know some

Compliance issues here and there on daily basis the thing i wanted to bring up was for your listeners that are still in finance um i think most training firms are still

Using uh the traditional strategies that you know other uh you know that have been implemented in you know other banks or whatnot and that's something that we take a pride at uh

You know my cio you know takes a pride out of that you know we have we all have a traditional asset background and we're using this same set of strategies um so i think it's very important

Uh you know for all of the traders out there that are looking to you know get into crypto there's nothing new about it it's just a different asset to trade it's just you know a different market

Uh but anything that you've currently learned at your desk is probably going to help you a lot more uh breaking into you know a crypto hedge fund that's i think that's great insight and

A lot of people you know have those types of questions about how their their work on wall street or work you know in a specific fund might transfer over if they can make that switch so i think that type of

Advice is is definitely very helpful one thing i think that's that's interesting right now and i know you know the last time we had gotten together and we'd spoken a little bit about it

Is your work at nyu um and and you work i guess maybe maybe describe what you do right now at nyu specifically with with blockchain um yeah so that's that's something that i've been extremely passionate about

This year uh i've thoroughly enjoyed it earlier this year through my husband i was asked to teach at nyu niu tendon which is the there's

You know class on blockchain and dlt and uh the dean said that you know when when i met the dean he had a very honest conversation with me he was like look i've been trying to set up this class

For past five years it's just that i cannot find anyone and i said that look first of all there are not a lot of professionals in crypto number one number two thing is there's no textbook out there that someone is

Going to come and teach so it's it's going to be very like additional work for anyone that's you know going to take up on it and and i said you know what i'm going to do it

And so you know both my husband like my husband the dean like you know other deans that were involved in the process said look you have our full health um but like you're on your own buddy like

There's nothing we can send so and the minute i started researching into what am i going to teach how am i going to teach it's a bunch of students that have probably

Traded in the past but that just know the word blockchain but they're getting into it uh so what am i going to teach them so a couple of things that i really wanted to mention because i'm i'm

I'm like this this topic like i'm trying to get out of word on it number one blockchain at berkeley does a great job you know they have the best resources out

And i'm working with nyu to do the same exact thing for you know undergrad students um nyu has put out a lot of research for grad students but not for undergrad um so that that's one thing um mit i think

Has a syllabus out for undergrad but that's about it there's there's nothing else you can find on the internet other than a princeton course that's been done by joe bino

Eric felder um and a couple of others that are very strictly bitcoin focused so now here i am trying to get you know good engineers hard into crypto so what am i going to teach them so shout out to spencer noon i think the

Blogs that he put out turn out to be great resources and that's about it almost every single thing i had to break it down from resources here and there from

Eric felder's and jobino's research but i had a very very tough time accumulating these resources and i know this is the time when nakamoto was putting out papers saying you know we're going to put out

Additional literature on blockchain um that literature cannot be taught to undergrad students right they've done their data structure 101 they've done their java 101 they know python

They know the tr you know the regular uh languages but then almost everyone that's trying to break into you know blocked in as an engineer thinks that solidity

Is the requirement to go um it's technically not there there's other languages that you could use that you you could learn that you could bring it on uh but then how do you how

Do you you know tell that to your students so we talked we talked almost everything from you know how bitcoin is created uh you know the more and more you talk about it the more

Sometimes funny it sounds like solving for the nons solving for you know the block created the digital signature being created in whom no one can hack it

And then the world lives happily ever after but the back end of me the trading side of me is thinking how can this thing get create you know being traded

On mass volumes when it takes 10 minutes to get solved like oh you know i think we need to be very realistic about the technology then so we uh uh you know the students had a

Lot of interest in the bitcoin paper ethereum paper we talked uh i had a couple of guest uh come and talk about it ethereum d5 protocols uh you know these d5 platforms um that there was a lot of interest

Around it and then as an industry from a whole like you know from digital signatures to hash functions to collisions to sharding um you know what each and every

Tech set could help you know uh blockchain scale um and like i said like i i had some guidance from um you know blocked in at berkeley here and there uh but i literally designed the course

And the material from scratch uh because we don't have a lot of literature out there which we should um i think once things get back to semi-normal i'm working with nyu on

It uh then we need to put all of the resources out um to have you know the students have a better understanding uh you know as you're you know you're

Recruiting i think if you get an early you know if you get a college graduate he'll probably have the same concern that oh do i need to know solidity or like

What language do i need to know like where can i learn more or where can i write more so um i think like that's something that i'm going to work on in next hopefully within a year or so

To put all of these resources out yeah and that's i think that's an interesting point too because we had um graham parrish on the show recently and he is an engineer at coinbase and uh does

A lot of a full stack engineering but had spent a lot of time working with solidity when he was at fluidity air swap and that was his advice in a lot of respects too was you know focus

On the core technologies like you don't just need to be a solidity engineer and unless you are literally trying to be a smart contract engineer there is a lot of work you can do in the blockchain space that that

Goes far beyond solidity so i thought that was a you know an interesting point to kind of echo and compound upon and then the other thing i wanted to mention so i had two of

My students get hired into two for different crypto companies and uh the reason that happened was one was an expert and he had spent a couple of semester in data structures

Which is very important to know and so he got hired at another trading firm and the other one is an expert in python so and he got hired at a venture uh hedge fund um so the like

And one thing that i throughout my semester i kept saying over and over again that guys this all i'm trying to show is that all of the technology that bitcoin or current blockchains are using it

Hasn't happened overnight it's something that has been in process for past about 30 to 35 years or so like you know someone else took a stab at smart contracts before

With alec uh you know data structures had been around the algorithm that bitcoin uses sha 256 has been around for a while like military uses it so there's there's nothing absolutely

Nothing new it's just that how it's being compiled right now that's a new element and i think that shouldn't you know afraid anyone who's trying to

Join the space from an engineering perspective or from a technologist perspective or you know just strategy business development or trading whatever it is there's absolutely

Nothing new that you know we're working on right i think that's such a great point and you know to what you were saying it seems like your advice is kind of play to your strengths you

Know find take what you're really good at or what you're most interested in and play to your strengths none of this stuff is is brand new you know um there's lots of new things coming out all the time in

The crypto space it seems but um you know this stuff isn't um you know it's been around for quite some time so i'm curious to know uh within your classrooms what have your students

Been most interested in um whether it's more on the engine or within the engineering side rating number go up my favorite streustra with my favorite story from my class is one of the

Students who never showed up one time uh never submitted his homework on time did his class presentation on xrp because he was trading it when it was 30 cents

And when he was presenting this was during covet like i was literally staring like this at my computer screen that you barely showed up to class and you were trading xrp

Wow well trading and then i had my cio and guest lecturer because they all wanted to know was where would bitcoin's price go so which is you know sometimes a good thing and a

Bad thing because i kept saying then you guys there's more to the industry than just crypto prices like i would try to change their attention throughout but every single day they're like

Professor where do you think ethereum would go it is funny to see the like the the cycle of of interest from people i think the the speculative nature of crypto and

The volatility although bitcoin is not too volatile right now but the speculative nature of of crypto and and and bitcoin and the volatility i think tends to draw a lot of people

Into the industry and then from there and hopefully fingers crossed people get more interested in some of the technology behind in some of the the functionality behind it and

And the use cases that it can can enable i think some people remain purely interested in the price but it is so interesting that that is how like that is what draws so many people

Into uh just like the industry as a whole and why they would even show up or take a a blockchain class at nyu and then the other thing that really intrigued most of them was uh

Defy they they thought that you know defy how borrowing and lending because you know these are students that have taken a lot of student loans out uh you know trying to

Get based around it 20 to 21 year olds um and then you know on how you could go and buy yourself a land uh you know on openc or whatnot or buy some art so a lot of class projects that i got was on uh d5 so between d5 between

A bitcoin price index and between xrp that was the spectrum of my class i'm curious what uh i know you mentioned uh the cio of ledger prime shiliang um had come into lecture like what other

Lectures did you have or set up that uh you know people are were really interested in so the most interesting lecture was uh by my friend uh victor at bison trails uh because he strictly

Talked about d5 and uh you know about open c about you know block five of you know various functionalities of d5 and that was very eye-opening for the

Students because they were like oh this is interesting this is a great use case of blockchain i would like to say this out personally loud i'm not i don't have i don't have a

Bullish opinion on d5 like i think it's interesting but i i don't want it to come as that i'm you know very bullish on it uh but the students actually found it

Very interesting that's one uh then i had uh santiago santos come from parify to talk a lot about proof of work proof of stake how they differ these consensus

Algorithms and then eventually come back and talk about various stable coins uh and then i had you know you know my cio come and talk about how

Trading markets differ and then the reason when chilean came it was also a different time because by that time you know crypto had seen its worst day you know march 12th the black thursday

So and you know the emergence from that like i'm talking the class was like in late april so you know how funds had recovered or how markets are recovered or what was lost so

Um you know it was so funny like i would talk about teslas and like so one of the things every single time i would discuss a different consensus algorithm i would go back to coin market cap and

Show them the token that you guys this protocol is using this consensus consensus algorithm and then you know i would be like look where the bitcoin price is today don't take it seriously but don't be

Surprised if it it's a lot different than tomorrow because it's a volatile market so that's why these students had seen the fall of crypto prices on march 12th because they had access to

Coin market cap they were following it you know for the consensus algorithms that they were working on so you know that's that's why they knew about it

Got it also another question regarding your students um the ones that come into your class are are they have you found that they're they're just brand new

Into the space they're just trying to learn more um and then by the end maybe they're trying to you know find careers in a space like how does that trajectory go usually so uh they all wanted to learn about the

Space that's one thing for sure uh they all said that look we've been we've heard of it we just can't you know read about it or you know we don't have enough time so we wanted to learn more uh they all wanted to learn more

Um like i said some hadn't some had previously traded uh and then there was this one student uh who actually got hired at the venture fund he had previously worked at jpmorgan so

But he said like look professor after graduation i don't think finance is traditional finances for me so i wanted you know this class to be an avenue to look into a different market

Um and a super bright student extremely smart sharp knew what he was talking about and um yeah he was like i don't think i'm going to go to jp back i'd rather you know go to what what you

Would recommend for us and and you had covered the resources at least from like a you know i guess higher education standpoint being being pretty sparse right now in textbooks and that type of thing i'm

Curious what type of maybe like resource advice you would provide to somebody who's just interested in learning whether they're a college student or beyond college or just wherever like

What are some of your favorite resources to to stay up to date or to stay educated on the the crypto industry in general i think it all depends at what point you're starting off

So if you're if you're literally brand new i i still think that bitcoin white paper is the best resource up there uh go read it it may sound silly at times

Uh but if you would look into each and every single term that's being written and defined uh it would it would make sense to it so start off from bitcoin white paper um like i said through and through

Spencer nunes articles are most of them are great resource uh because they break it down well like they they they did a lot of work for me that i

Wanted to do for like my 21 you know 20 year old students um that's one because i couldn't teach them research papers right like they didn't have the bandwidth to go re you know read research

Uh you know go more and more into depth you know into uh these algorithms uh but just touch slightly upon it um so that that was a great another great source um for d5 i think like

Banquez is is a good one uh if you're trying to learn more about trading markets coin metrics put out a great uh blog every now and then i think it's it's once a week or so uh and these

Are these are some of the unbiased ones that i found um and then obviously there's there's there's definitely a lot more but i don't think as an industry we have like one go-to

Resource that's being updated every single day that's it that's such an interesting point sounds like there's a little bit of a gap in like where to find like you said it's

Difficult to accumulate um all the different information out there on all the different protocols and d5 security tokens all this stuff i'm imagining the book the first textbook being like

This thick the biggest textbook no man on crypto and blockchain i find all the info out there but i i was just going to pop it okay i think it's

I think it's funny too and maybe this is part of the problem but i do think that the industry moves so fast that like by the time a textbook is published like probably half the information is

Outdated like you think about if somebody published a textbook right that was in 2018 like 75 stuff doesn't even apply anymore yeah that's that's that's such a good point um and the

Times are changing like that i would say i'm curious because a lot more colleges uh universities you know duke mit columbia you mentioned a couple princeton they're coming out with courses right

They have to stay up to speed with what the industry is doing from what you've seen in the interest in this from the students like do you think this trend will

Continue to where there will be more and more classes out there more and more opportunity coming from universities absolutely i think so my class uh was booked i think within a couple of

Hours the minute they put it out it was it was booked uh back students i wanted a certain limit uh within a couple of hours we had capped out the class and this is just nyu columbia i know is

Starting to put out i think an undergrad course i saw it somewhere floating around um there there's definitely a lot of interest around it and so from the student side it's not from

The instructor side alone it's both from students because uh like i said i think students have started to realize that you don't need a different skill set to break into the industry

It's you know the technical work and the technical knowledge that they've already been getting at their colleges it's just you know a next step forward on it so um definitely i i think there's going

To be a lot many courses not this not this upcoming semester but definitely next year yeah it's important to note right because most of the universities will probably go remote

Next semester and everyone is you know trying to play it safe but 2021 hopefully will be a good year for crypto education yeah and and i think one thing that's been interesting just watching

College students enter the industry has been i i would say the the students that have kind of hustled and even if they're not as fortunate enough to be at a school like

You know a berkeley or an nyu or an mit or a princeton that have these like educational resources and classes i've even seen students start blockchain clubs at their own universities

And that has been like a marketable thing for them to end up saying hey i started a a blockchain club here i'm actually dedicated to the industry and and i want to work full-time in it and

I've seen a lot of people have success doing that so i think even in the places where maybe they don't have that that opportunity that the university provides them they kind of pave their own way which has

Been awesome to see yep every now and then i get a linkedin message from uh somewhere i'm you know somewhere in other state other than new york saying that look we want to start a

Blockchain club you know we're getting speakers around we're just you know we cannot provide the education and but yeah we're we're working on it so definitely a lot of interest around yeah

I love the initiative and we uh cold and i like to finish off every episode with a little little silly segment that we like to play called pump it dump it which is essentially

One thing in the industry that you would be buying it could be a narrative it could be a platform it could be anything it could be a topic and then one thing that you're selling so i'll let colton kick it off

Uh to give you an example so you can kind of brainstorm a little bit as as he's saying it but colton uh what do you got this week on on pump and dump it yeah um you mentioned earlier rob pump it i think um we need some

Volatility back in the space i think we need to pump bitcoin a little bit i think volatility's sitting around i mean serious lows maybe all time yeah uh

So i'd like to see a nice little nice little pump in price um i think there's rumors out that there's going to be some more uh stimulus going on in our economy so that might that might help more more of those uh

1200 checks pumping up the price um and then for the dump it um i thought the twitter hack last week was absolutely fascinating um the the twitter hack where i mean everyone from

Kanye west to jeff bezos all these um you know accounts with millions of followers getting hacked and the hacker asking for bitcoin absolutely fascinating to me um so bad for the brand

I'm not sure um but good for um you know people kind of google i saw the google trend searches and and uh people were searching for bitcoin after that like what is this what is this

I'm not sure but i'm curious to to know like what your thoughts on uh that twitter hack last week i i think so i strongly believe any kind of publicity is good publicity

So yeah for a big point yeah i was at my parents house so i i didn't have a lot of time to like follow what who's demanding what uh but i got a you know i got a message from a crypto friend then you

Got that everyone is down coindesk is down and like oh my god and uh asking money for some blockchain health initiative that's what he said uh but then later at

Night when i found uh when i uh finally got on twitter it was like oh the hackers had have gotten 12 or 13 bitcoin i i don't know the exact number it

Wasn't that much it wasn't that much like what i mean god that's it so if i if i'm the hacker you just hack into elon musk's account and and and wait till the market opens

And tweet that i'm stepping down as tesla ceo short the market and you would have made way more than 12 bitcoin exactly this is it like that's it right um cool so that's my puppet dump

It for the week um aisha what are you what are you pumping in what are you dumping this week oh my god uh you guys i work at a fund right

um narratives uh so no investment advice uh but i am thoroughly enjoying the rise of chain link um i think uh

I mean you know given the rise of defy given the rise uh you know on how it's managing to you know bridge the gap in between uh that's something that i'm liking so far i'm not an investor yet so

Please don't don't listen to me and my dump is uh hmm what is my dump i have to name names do i i have to name the name no no i mean it could be it could be very general things so

Um okay i'm not gonna name the name but uh like last week uh yeah it was last week uh on one of my you know industry calls i heard if twitter just goes on blockchain but it won't have all of these and

I rolled my eyes and i was like did not just say that and i had to correct it i was like look jack is an investor in coinbase and he's he's an advocate and score accepts crypto payment so it's not he's

Know who doesn't understand blockchain uh but do you know how slow these protocols move and this goes back to my topic of like an initial topic of discussion that we're imagining these protocols to work

Overnight but they're not going to so that's why we all need to take a breather and you know that's probably need a lot more talent a lot more engineers a lot more traders

And um you know generalists in the space that could help this space even grow further um right so that's i think that would be yeah not everything needs a blockchain no

It certainly does not certainly rob what are you pumping what are you dumping this week uh i mean per usual on pump and defy uh everything uh i'm i i am i am personally buying

Everything under the sun that has a loose association with defy um investment advice yeah yeah that's certified financial investment advice specifically for me though um and on the dump it side kind of similar

To d5 i'm dumping the sanity of both uh i guess what you would call bitcoin maximalist and ethereum maximalist because uh bitcoin maximalists are looking on at all this craziness with defy and i think

Rightfully so you know trying to halt the brakes a little bit and saying hey you know maybe some of the stuff is not sustainable there's probably some issues security wise economics wise a lot of the stuff

Is is probably more hype than substance so they're trying to pump the brakes there the brakes are not pumping the gas is just getting hit even harder and then on the ethereum i guess what

You would consider ethereum maximal aside the eath heads um they're getting very angry because every single defy token on the planet is pumping and the price of eth is staying as flat

As bitcoin is right now so you have you know the chain links the snx's all these all these tokens all these platforms that are built on eath and the thesis in the past has been like

Okay you know a lot of value is going to accrue to the protocol that is not happening at all right now so you have kind of bitcoin maxi salt you have eth maxi salt and then you have

D5 going through the roof so i'm just i'm dumping the sanity of bitcoiners and of each heads because neither thesis is is playing out much to the dismay and to the

Portfolio account so i it's fine with me though you you just have to go with the flow these days and i just want to add one thing what rob just said about eth maximalist

God that sentiment hasn't changed like i have a walking kid i've changed jobs like two times in the industry but one thing on the fact that the more you build on even the higher eats will rise

I think that narrative needs to go away so just proven over time for sure yeah exactly i mean yeah i think i we need we need to get away from that we need to just focus on building at

This point that i mean if we if we do that hopefully that would change the prices but if we like if we come out with like one mass adaptive protocol i think that's

The way to go um but you know these tiny maximalist societies uh i used to tell my students guys an argument on twitter like never don't do that yeah like the

Way sometimes i dare to do that no no yeah so but uh yeah awesome well thank you so much for for taking the time to speak with us today uh we really appreciate it it was uh it

Was great to get your thoughts on just the industry and how it's changed but also on the education system and specifically how students and kind of young professionals can maybe better position themselves

To to be successful in a career in crypto so thank you so much for that thank you thank you for having me and thank you so much bolton and rob the work you're doing you know bringing in new talent bringing in

New faces and you know providing the platform because you guys are like also leaders you know in your own field in the space so you know there's no other recruiting

Firm out there i you know i want to mention strongly that crypto is still so small that most of the hiring has been through relationships so the work that we're doing is hopefully going to open up a

Lot many doors uh for other individuals that want to break into we certainly hope so yeah thanks a lot isha the stuff you're doing is fascinating so i really appreciate your


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