“Trillion Core” Chinese CPU vs. AMD & Intel: ZhaoXin X86 CPU Review ZX-C+ 4701

by birtanpublished on September 30, 2020

there's one much talk over the last few
years about homegrown Chinese x86
processors made by companies other than
Andy and Intel the latter of whom owns
the x86 license with some help we
managed to get a full desktop system
with one of those Chinese ax 86
processors this is the first non AMD non
Intel x86 CPU that we've ever reviewed
while reviewing the entire desktop in a
separate video but this one will be
focusing solely on the most interesting
component the CPU which is the dashing
Cayenne ZX c + c 4701 we checked with
our office Chinese Mandarin teacher and
the loose translation of J Sheen is
trillion court or Megacorp if you prefer
a name which might make AMD jealous for
the former or Intel and it's mega
tasking jealous for the latter this
Shawn high-backed company's CPU is an
up-and-coming alternative to Andy and
Intel alike in today's video the older
among you may be shocked to hear names
such as via cyrix and centaur coming
back to relevance before that this video
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this is the desktop the desktop is the
Chou Shan TZ 561 – v3 I'm not sure the
tones on Chau see on so we're gonna go
with fried oven it's sold by saint
automaton or th TF and it has an AM the
r7 for 32 gigabyte video card which we
had forgotten existed and it's got 8
gigabytes of ddr3 RAM it has a 256
gigabyte SSD by the extremely well-known
brand
foresee very well known and it's got a
th TF designed VX 11 P – CM motherboard
and our prize be joshing CPU so the CPU
is a 2 gigahertz 4 core 4 thread
solution no SMT on this one and it is
not to be confused with high gan which
we'll be talking out later the company
that makes the Zen one based CPUs in
China but instead something different
will be reviewing the whole system again
in a separate piece but for now we're
focusing on just the CPU just for point
of reference the entire system this
whole box with the side panel cost a
thousand USD it's about seven thousand
R&B or so plus or minus a bit so it's
somewhat staggering for the price you
could build the cheaper system with
better components in China even so it's
not this isn't some like West versus
East pricing difference it's just it's
the parts in it that make it expensive
and we'll talk about why with some
theories later in this video so the
first thing we did when we got the
system was run some benchmarks on it
it's got a custom OS on it that is going
to be talked about in the system review
but we installed Windows 10 for on our
own SSD for a fairly standard and maybe
slightly more controlled environment and
ran a couple of tests now the bigger
part of this content piece is going to
be talking about the history of couching
why via is involved how cyrix is
involved and a couple of the other
companies like like the high gan cpus
and how they are related as well it's
really interesting history for this one
but we should get the quick benchmarks
out of the wafer it's just a really set
the stage on how good this thing isn't
let's start off with the most successful
test we have the most success with
blender 2.79 we used our standard cpu
benchmarking methodology so you can
watch our video from last year read the
methodology article from last year for
that we use the monkey head and the Gion
logo renders which we've designed
in-house for use as cpu benchmarks these
ran without any issues whatsoever well
one one small issue the monkey head
scene took 300 6.8 minutes to render you
can take a look at that chart and the
logo scene took a truly impressive
four hundred and eight point nine
minutes this is multiples upon multiples
ahead of and these thirty nine ninety X
it's not even
close the Dow Shane CPU is one of the
best CPUs we vet oh hang on I'm I'm
being told that a bigger bar is actually
worse not better so it's in minutes
obviously and higher is worse for
something like this anyway we had to
leave it running overnight and that
makes it hands-down the longest CPU test
we've ever had to run to render either
of these two images when we tested the
two core for thread Athlon 200 GE back
in 2018 it took a hundred 16.1 minutes
to render the monkey heads the old Intel
i5 2500 K was retested at the end of
2019 into this benchmark and that one
managed ninety four point two minutes
for the monkey heads the 2500 K as a
reminder is from 2011 it's about nine
years old now for the GM logo render the
Athlon 200 GE required 144 point nine
minutes the i5 2500 K required 121.9
minutes and the joshing CPU is 409
minute results marks even the 200 GE as
needing 65% less time to render the 200
GE and the 2500 K are also both
overclockable and as far as we can tell
the z XC plus is not or at least it's
motherboard didn't allow us one or the
other we checked and blender was
definitely using all four cores it's
working properly
it's just that slow this was a software
issue
cinnamon char 15 would be the obvious
choice for judging relative performance
quickly since we have years of data
logged for it but it refused to launch
on the Joshi and CPU our 20 proves much
more compatible and the z XC + managed a
score of 300 for mark's multi-threaded
and 82 and the single threaded that
multi-threaded score is closer to the
single threaded scores of modern CPUs
and even still below those it's easy
enough to find our 20 scores posted
publicly online like an Hardware bought
for example but just as a frame of
reference the eight core 16 thread i7
6900 K being used to write this script
scored 32 93 points multi-threaded and
346 single threaded without closing any
tabs or background tasks we attempted to
measure CPU power consumption with the
current clamp over the 4 pin power cable
the one going into the motherboard EPS
both assuming that still the primary CP
power on this new and untested for us
platform the clamp read zero point zero
amps when idling that desktop after
being zeroed out and everything else and
a wall meter read just twenty five watts
for full system power draw idle it's
obviously not possible that it's
actually zero amps for the CPU idle so
this platform may be configured to draw
some idle power through the 24 pin
connector instead the CPU just it's not
registering on that EPS 12 volt because
not drawing off power for our current
clamp to measure it with the logo
rendering and the CPU pushed to 100%
utilization the clamp still only read
0.7 amps 8.4 watts and the full system
wall draw was 51 watts the CPU heatsink
was barely warm to the touch the entire
PC consumed less than a standard light
bulb would have a few years ago we took
some additional measurements to be sure
idle the 24 pins 12 volt cables measured
at 0.4 amps 4.8 watts the 5 volt cables
the red ones on the 24 pin measured at
0.7 amps or 3.5 watts and the 3.3 volt
cables measured at 0.9 apps or 2.9 7
watts and we used our mod mat to quickly
reference the locations of each of these
pins if you want to do the same you can
go to store documents access dotnet and
order one of the mod mats we've got
large and medium there so note that
these cables Hulse R provide power to
other devices the 24 pin that include
the v RM the fans on the motherboard or
the ones plugged into it and the GPU via
its PCIe slot so it's not just CPU power
we took the iStent test versus the delta
when rendering when rendering the logo
that is if the 24 pin 12 volt line
increased between 0.5 amps and 1.2 amps
depending on the scene for the 5 volt
line it increased by 0.1 amps and the
3.3 volt cables also increased by 0.1
amps so we're between 8.4 watts and 18
watts total for the CPU depending on how
much the board is pushing to other
things like the vrm or the memory and
depending on how the board is wired but
it's pretty low power consumption either
way we're a gaming site first of course
so for this CPU exclusive part of the
review we ran the only game from our
suite that should typically be
completely non GPU dependent that's
civilization 6
it's turn time benchmark which resulted
in an average turn time of 180 3.9
seconds creating a gigantic bar and
blowing out the scale of our chart once
again this is the best result we vet
okay well being told that again a bigger
bar is in fact worse for this benchmark
so this is a turn time benchmark there's
five turns in the between the time when
you click and turn and your next turn
starts and the average 184 seconds per
AI player multiply that by five players
or more depending and that's how long it
takes to get to your next turn so
basically you click and turn and you
should leave the house and then it'll be
your next turn when you come back this
is one of this is the worst that we've
ever tested in this benchmark the
previous last place entry in our civics
chart was the $50.00 to core 4 threat
upon 3000 G at seventy two point six
seconds average we allowed the benchmark
to run overnight again and to add insult
to injury it had crashed the desktop by
the time we came back in spite of
successfully completing the benchmark it
just couldn't stay open after all that
torture we can probably stop the
performance benchmarking there you get
the idea we've got comparatives for
other CPUs in those charts so netbook
performance and power consumption are
what we're looking at for this CPU and
for that for netbook performance and a
CPU installed in a desktop obviously for
$1000 you start to raise eyebrows at it
well cover why anyone would bother in
more detail in the system review but
there are several reasons that China is
invested in and interested in developing
its own homegrown hardware massive
disclaimer here before we get into the
really interesting part of this piece we
are not here to comment politically or
socially on what's going on nor are we
talking about the potential security
implications of using these processors
so we're just here to deliver you the
factual explanations on why this low-end
CPU is of such interest and this low
powered computer hardware exists when
China could just as easily buy Intel or
AMD processors that are much better and
at least retail are cheaper as well so
all we're doing here is breaking it down
factually there's
no commentary beyond that native Chinese
CPUs have been around for years like
sunway fate hung lune Sun and Josh Shan
the Bo x IC design corporation that
designs lune Sun CPUs has been around
since 2002 alone
the lune Sun name is the anglicized
version in Chinese it's long seen and
that literally translates to dragon chip
it's formerly known as the godson chip
if you may have heard of that in the
past many of these companies are
fabulous working with the existing
silicon manufacturers to produce the
physical chips recently however the
Chinese government has increased its
investment in these companies and the
adoption of their products over the past
decade or so China's local and central
governments have both shown increasing
preference for indigenous technology on
their procurement lists culminating in a
full-on ban of US software and computers
in government offices by 2022 the ban
intends to remove hardware from US
headquartered companies from government
computers in China and even though a lot
of the u.s. branded companies have
headquarters in Taiwan being
incorporated in the United States is
enough to get their Hardware stricken
from the options list for China
one reason that China has made this
change is America's frequently issued
sanctions restricting the sale of
technology to China and Chinese
companies in 2015 for example the u.s.
forbade Intel from selling Xeon and Xeon
Phi chips to Chinese super computer
manufacturers supercomputers including
most of those in the West are commonly
used for military and nuclear research
so this band probably isn't surprising
now to be clear here there is a line
drawn where as far as we know for today
anyway and in 2021 and the Intel CPUs
will still be available on the Chinese
market they're just not supposed to be
used for government computers so that's
the limitation out presumably where
higher performance is needed they might
be using them anyway
but that's the line drawn consumers will
still be able to get Andy and Intel CPUs
at least as of recording today so AMD
and Intel are the only major CPU
companies even left these days there's
no one else
they've leveled the playing field mostly
Intel has leveled the playing field
although it's switched recently both of
these companies are nominally American
and with more sanctions and acted over
the past couple of years the only
remaining choice for China is to a
it's high performance processors in the
quantities needed for supercomputers by
making them itself in general these back
and forth sanctions and punishments
inhibit technological development and
advancement likely this is the intent of
those sanctions but they also have the
side effect of encouraging non AMD and
non Intel competitors to pop up and
start making their own CPUs necessity
here is the mother of invention as
always and it'll take a long time for
joshing to catch up but it won't take
nearly as long as it took Intel and AMD
to get where they are today because the
hard works been done the roadmap has
been laid out for new silicon companies
and although a lot of the truly secret
parts of the inventions are still
undisclosed AMD and Intel keep tight
lips on all that it's not really been
leaked it's still going to be a lot
easier for a new companies to get to
where these are today because the
groundwork especially at the fabs has
been laid for them it's not a scenario
where like Andy and Intel they were
waiting for fabs to catch up for a long
time Intel still to move to a smaller
process couching can kind of start there
so it's it's not gonna have nearly as
long of a road so where this is
interesting for the Chinese government
is that it wants parts for
supercomputers and it's having trouble
getting them because of the sanctions so
it's going to make its own still despite
sanctions there's no need to completely
start from scratch when designing a new
CPU some of the Chinese manufacturer is
just license existing instruction sets
like the mips-based lune sun cpus while
others are directly based on existing
chips like our joshing z ax c plus and
we'll discuss those in more detail
shortly one of the latter types stands
out in particular the high gan diana
series produced by an AMD chinese joint
venture was recently looked at by
Wendell from level one Tech's who's been
talking about them in great detail on
his channel in 2016 when the Zen
architecture was still pre-release and
Andy was searching for ways to claw its
way back into profitability they created
the Tianjin higuaín advanced technology
investment co limited also not Hispanic
which is much easy
to say they also created the higuaín
micro electronics company limited or HMC
and the chengdu higuaín integrated
circuit design company limited or high
gan which takes an entire breath to say
these were made in partnership with
various Chinese companies Andy is the
majority owner of fatik and of HMC while
thetac is or was at this point the
majority owner of high gan with
permission from the United States
departments of Defense and commerce as
well as quote multiple other agencies
within the US government and these
sublicensed some version of the x86 64
Zhen one core and it's design – HM see
hm sieve and went back and forth with
high gan to develop a cpu high gan
ordered CPUs from HMC HMC placed a
production order with GlobalFoundries
and then they sold the completed silicon
on to high gan who assembled the
finished CPUs and sold them these layers
upon layers of companies made the high
gan CPUs not American enough despite
working with AMD that they satisfied the
PRC government requirements that's why
that whole mess existed the end products
were essentially identical to first gen
Rison and first gen epic processors that
came out in the first half of 2017 but
they were obfuscated and enough of a
bureaucratic mess that everyone just
sort of shakes their heads size and says
okay and then moves on an attack and
wendel of level 1 tax again have looked
at the high gan processors in detail and
have write-ups and videos on them if
you'd like to learn more about those but
we're looking at Tao Shan today and a
couple of the other parts the reason we
switched in the last section there –
past tense though was because the joint
venture between these companies was
effectively killed in 2019 that ik was
explicitly added to the hide states
entity list along with high gan and HMC
meaning that Andy was henceforth
forbidden from supplying any
intellectual property to those groups
despite having majority ownership of
them for a legal document though it's
all surprisingly blunt and very readable
to a non lawyer it reads quote pursuant
to
7:40 4.11 be of the EA are the ERC
determined that Chinese entity sugan and
the whoosh eed young and institute of
computing technology are involved in
activities determined to be contrary to
the national security and foreign policy
interests of the United States
sugan also is as further described below
the majority owner of high gan and high
gan has ownership interest in Chengdu
higuaín integrated circuit and Chengdu
higuaín micro electronics technology
accordingly the ERC has also determined
that high gan Chengdu higuaín integrated
circuit and Chengdu higuaín micro
electronics technology pose a
significant risk of being or becoming
involved in activities contrary to the
national security and foreign policy
interests of the United States so this
is a lot of the interesting history
behind these CPU companies the various
subsidies the partial ownership AMD has
in their subsidies and how we've gotten
to where we are today a couple of other
companies popped up in that quote from
the the foreign entities list and sue
GaN is one of them so sue Ghana is a
super computer manufacturer the u.s.
says that quote it has publicly
acknowledged a variety of military and
uses and end users of its
high-performance computers not really
surprising pretty much every
supercomputer for the most part has
military uses and although it's sad
that's just the way that a lot of them
are used some of them have been turned
towards human malware recently so that
least that's something positive being
used for the supercomputers now since
the Zen one IP that the venture was
founded upon was reportedly very high
level and did not include detailed RTL
information like the recent big navvy
leak did that left the Chinese companies
high and dry with limited ability to
develop further on and these
intellectual property and e retained all
the intellectual property and unless
they left more unsecured notebooks
connected to the network like they did
last time high gan shouldn't have enough
knowledge to in theory completely
reverse-engineer the chips so also
they're forbidden to do business with
Global Foundries which is again
nominally in American come
that actually has some fabs in the US
and it wasn't part spun off by Andy when
they went fabless fortunately for AMD it
had begun securing itself enough of a
financial stronghold in the u.s. at this
point that the loss of contract wasn't
going to put it out of business because
that contract although in 2016 was
crucial to hedging against the uncertain
future of Xen at the time it it was no
longer necessary one's n+ and then two
came out because they've done extremely
well on the market at least relative to
its size or especially relative to its
size back to our CPU our CPU was created
by a less ill-fated joint venture
between via technologies that's a name
from the past and the Shanghai Municipal
Government the majority owner with the
sanctions against that ik via is now one
of three companies along with Intel and
AMD that holds an x86 license via and
tsmc the fab that via works with our
Taiwanese companies so perhaps the US
government is less able to control their
activities although this is outside our
area of expertise Josh Shane has also
worked with the Chinese fab HL MC so yes
this is now a joint venture between a
state-owned Chinese company and between
a Taiwanese company we're really lodging
ourselves between a rock and a political
place so we'll move along quickly
in 1999 via acquired cyrix a once
promising x86 company run into the
ground by national semiconductor it also
bought centaur technologies an active
x86 CPU design house and remember that
the x86 license is gold because only
Intel can issue it just like only AMD
can issue the x64 licenses with the
licenses and intellectual property from
these acquisitions via has been selling
center-based x86 processors for the past
two decades with several Eden and nano
models released in 2011
those were the code names releases under
the via brand name have been rare since
but a server SRC named CH a or what
we're going to call cha with an AI
coprocessor was announced by centaur
just last year unlike cyrix
centaur has successful
maintained its identity under its parent
company with the co-founder and lead
architect of the AI coprocessor Glenn
Henry remaining president of the company
until his partial retirements in 2019
vias x86 license is subject to renewal
by Intel which owns the x86 license and
the original 10-year agreement expired
in 2013 however the FTC sued Intel in
2009 for using quote anti-competitive
tactics to cut off rivals access to the
market and deprive consumers of choice
and innovation in the microchips that
comprised computers central processing
unit most people here remember that
happening especially as it pertained to
AMD this was back when Intel was doing
more than just marketing development
fund but was functionally bribing OMS to
use only its parts in place of its
competitors parts there's a fine line
between MDF and illegal anti-competitive
practices and Intel crossed that line so
all of that factors in in 2010 the FTC
approved the settlement that required
Intel to among other things do the
following quote modify its intellectual
property agreements with AMD Nvidia and
via so that those companies have more
freedom to consider mergers or joint
ventures with other companies without
the threat of being sued by Intel for
patent infringement further quotes offer
to extend vias x86 licensing agreement
for five years beyond the current
agreement which expires in 2013 the
first half of this requirement might
explain why Sean hi Josh in
semiconductor co limited came into
existence the joint venture and why it
was founded precisely in 2013 CP is
based on via and Centaurs Isaiah
architecture have also been released
primarily under that brand since then so
we've been using the term x86 here to
talk about licensing but to be
absolutely clear Josh Aten CPUs are
64-bit x86 64 chips their first two CPUs
were the ZX – a and the ZX – B which
were both based on the Nano X – CPU from
2011 the Nano X – CPU is – nano 3000
CPUs
two thousand nine that were stuck on one
died the ZX see is based on the Eden x4
while hardware info the software reports
are z x – c plus as being a nano quad
core c 4650 v ZX c plus is produced in
both four core that's the Cayenne and
eight core or kai-shan variants and no
joshi and CPUs have SMT just to be clear
on that so it's four and eight period
the eight core consists of two dies
linked via FSB which might start to
sound a little bit familiar somehow JA
shaytans naming conventions up to this
point are a little less confusing than
the underlying via CPUs but after the z
XC + ja Shan began transferring to a
different naming scheme the z-axis D or
K X 5000 has the same basic specs as the
ZX see plots but it's a single die SOC
design with an integrated Northbridge
and ddr4 support courtesy of a new wood
dalco microarchitecture which is
supposedly the first major divergence
from the Centaur Isaiah base for what
it's worth
would thou Co roughly translates to five
roads intersection it's named after a
train station regardless of how much
development assistance does or doesn't
come from centaur there are real
advances being made under the couching
brand without just copy pasting older
CPUs the ZX e or KX 6000 was a more
dramatic performance upgrade moving to a
16 nanometer process and a three
gigahertz clock speed on the Lujiazui
architecture and to clarify z XC or KX
5000 etc are families of CPUs with
multiple SKUs in between them and
different configurations of core
accounts and frequencies for it's just
like others Wiki chip is the most
fruitful english-language source of
information on any of these CPUs they've
had direct contact with J Sheen and
centaur and both of those companies
seemed pretty open so if you want to
learn more of the history check out wiki
chip our system came with a discrete GPU
though but one other selling point of
the ZX processors is that they're
equipped with integrated graphics that's
done through the chipset on our zxc plus
but later CPU is like the ZX 5000
actually include an on-die GPU or an IP
there are unsubstantiated reports that
this architecture is based on IP from
the s3 graphics solution many sources on
Jiao shaitaan' CPUs cite the same fir
onyx forum post by user via underscore s
CX which contains a huge volume of very
confidently stated and highly specific
information about Chow in s3 HTC via
centaur and hardware it's worth a read
but we can't personally vouch for it s3
was founded in 1989 it floundered in the
late 90s and that was with the rise of
3d accelerators it then spun off its
graphics division and sold it to via
actually in 2000 where they developed
chipset iGPS until 2011 and they sold
them to HTC according to the ZX 6
thousand spec sheet the integrated
graphics support is up to 4k resolution
and DirectX 11 so again catching up and
quickly we have our doubts about some of
the claims that the company has made
they claim that they're going to achieve
parity with Rison in 2020 Rison what
given where we saw the performance and
these benchmarks that seems actually
impossible but we'll see that's supposed
to be this year there are also claims of
releasing seven editor parts in 2021
which we also sort of doubt but not
about none of the doubt here is in the
fact that J Sheen is making big strides
it's just they're not that big so this
ragtag assembly of old intellectual
property has turned into a series of
processors that is at very best a
functional windows-compatible
alternative to AM D and Intel CPUs it's
not something we'd recommend bine even
if you're in China because you can buy
and the intent all parts for cheaper
that are better this whole system even
if you built it you go to watch on BAE
se GE market or something which is not
yeah you buy on Taobao or something too
but you get it done cheaper with other
parts so the real reason this exists
seems to be that it's a municipal or
state backed venture to create CPUs for
his future supercomputers that's kind of
our guest based on a lot of research
subscribe for more please let us know
what you think of this type of content
there's a lot of information here that
kind of bleeds between technology and
global politics we try to stay away from
the latter and give you more of the
former but obviously it's you can't
completely separate them given the topic
so let us know we like this type of
content it's long form research and
journalism if you want to fund this type
of effort because it's very expensive
for the time cost to do it all you can
help us out on patreon.com slash gamers
Nexus or you can get something in
exchange for your support on stored on
cameras axis net and that'll help me
keep Patrick funded to continue
laborious Lee researching these types of
topics because he did all the research
on this one thanks for watching we'll
see you all next time

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except you can't wipe your ass with it well I mean we're going to take a gamble on the YouTube D monetization system and talk about the impact of corona...
everyone we're closing out our trip in Taipei for our factory tourists we have a lot of factory footage live already and we have more coming to the the chan...
hey what's up guys Jack and Matt here with the Thai stereos and today we're gonna be finding out is a six hundred dollar laptop worth it in 2020 it'...