Sam Dodson | XRP | Digital Asset | Crypto Interview | BlockchainBrad | Ripple | XRP Ledger

by birtanpublished on September 2, 2020

today it's Brad Laurie or blockchain Brad and today I'm speaking with Sam Dodson he is an expert when it comes to XRP and all things ripple and I have a great deal of respect for him for his knowledge and that's what this is all

About is to provide education information for all of us as we explore what is blockchain and beyond Sam thank you very much mate for your time today I'm glad to be here Brad likewise mate now once again thanks for

The honor of having this conversation the premise is really just to expand my knowledge certainly of XRP and for all those out there who want to know more and to try and do that in an objective fashion hopefully the questions really

Challenge everybody and allow for us to it once again broaden the scope of what xip actually is now Sam one of the things that we know XRP and ripple is that they are differentiated in different in specific ways can you just

Give us a bit of a rundown on the term ripple the term XRP and how they are different okay so ripples a company they sell software to banks they have a proprietary product that's called ripple net that the banks and eff eyes you know

Payment processors credit unions and so forth they use to facilitate payments be they cross border to you know any kind of payment they can triple net and the software that they they created can use x RP x RP is of course digital asset

Cryptocurrency some people call it and you can use that and the XRP ledger that's the other piece is XR PL or the XR p ledger which is kind of the opposite of ripple net it's decentralized permissionless trustless

You know the terminology goes on and on but it's essentially a this separate component that ripple holds a lot of XR P so their incentive to see the value of x RP rise and the way they plan to do that is by utilizing it to facilitate

Cross-border payments I say and you know MoneyGram is their current partner that they're they're starting to push you using X RP and driving liquidity globally and there's you know they're in the early stages of that right now yes

And say I want to talk to you about money Graham and a few others that are starting to use that when we talk about enterprise businesses and partnership but if we go back a bit what was interesting and what you're saying is

The distinguishing factors of the XR PL that protocol level that priciple was I guess the backing you know the starting point for X RP and then you have the the counterpart with the centralized aspects of ripple you know with their under

Pending underpinning texts I want to understand this better you know obviously you're a supporter of the development of blockchain development and evolution of new decentralized technologies but in

The context of ripple and XRP they one could argue have different technological agenda so how do they work together how do they how are they best explained in terms of for those who are looking for decentralized solutions perhaps and

Looking for the future of Finance okay so another area I think where there's some confusion with the XRP ledger is people think that you know like ripple using it to facilitate or ripple net using it to facilitate payments for the

Bank's is the only use case and that's not not really that's not really true um everything that you can do with Bitcoin you can do with XRP it runs on a different of course with Bitcoin and most of the crypto is out there you're

Using proof-of-work and mining and so forth with XRP it's based on consensus and we don't have blocks but there are Ledger's which are essentially like blocks they're just the terminology is a little different it doesn't run on the

You TXO model I believe where you you know if you want to get the current state of the blockchain you have to start at the very beginning the first Bitcoin transaction and play them all the way through yeah so instead X are PL

Every ledger clothes every three seconds or so actually has all the accounts all of the balances in there so you know the full state of the ledger every 3 seconds it makes for a very large blockchain you don't else but it also

Means you don't have to keep the full history there are nodes out there that do but but again not required so you know you you you don't need permission to join the network to join XR PLL anybody can set up a wallet

Anybody can send and receive with it so it's permissionless in that sense you have instead of miners and nodes you have validators those validators are the ones coming to agreement on the ordering and the validity of transactions are

Making sure that they're not breaking any rules and then they're putting them in time order and when a trusted group what's called the UNL the universal node list agrees on transactions and there's you

Know gets probably more complex than we want to get into and how they do that but we're trying to reach agreement so that they can do a ledger close and then move on to the next block and if they can't agree on something they kind of

Set it aside for the next the next block I say ask you though obviously we're seeing the lights of proof of stake also be part of the conversation when it comes to changing that proof of work model into new ways of securing networks

And also when it comes to validators so how many nodes have to exist in the X rpm we're obviously distribution is hugely important and decentralization so how broad is the network we'll meet when it

Comes to validation there is about 220 I think is the last number I counted up the actual list of UNL supported nodes they are the ones the validators that are in the UNL is smaller I can't remember that's like I mean if you can

Compared to the likes of other startups right from the beginning some might even have less than 20 now as you know so it's obviously growing yeah well so ripple started out with 22 launch and then what they did as for

Every two that got added to the UNL they would turn down one of their servers and right now they're down to seven and when they get to more they'll be below the there's a 20% per forgetting how to talk a 20% threshold that's required to you

Know you have to be 80 percent in agreement to make a change to the code to move on to the next version so they're actually about to lose their ability to veto any changes to the network so it's I granted most of the

Companies in the default UNL that ripple publishes and a few others publish their ripple partners and and so forth but you also have you know there's a lot of different aspects to decentralization you know as Bitcoin yeah if we look at

Geographic decentralization it gets an F because there's so much centralized in China but then if you look at the nodes keeping the full ledger history that's spread out and it's ten thousand people all over right um but another aspect to

That is you know with Bitcoin because of the incentive structure all of those miners are there to you know turn a profit there they're spending huge amounts of a like are burning through huge amounts of electricity they have

Electricity bills to pay so it's got to be a profitable endeavor for them with ripple on the other hand because you're not like competing to win the prize because you're not mining the the server that one of the community members

Runs is I think he said under 200 watts I'm so environmentally you know the this vast differences between the two and even when it comes to relying on things like changes in difficulty or the hardening all of that's removed from the

Equation that's out yeah and you have you know you have exchanges that are running validators you have corporations that are running validators do you have banks that are running validators do you have enthusiasts that are running

Validators so you get kind of a wider swath of the community that have different interests and so forth whereas with Bitcoin I would say everybody's motivated by the fees and the block rewards yeah they're a little more

Centralized around that whereas with XRP I think you get a little more diversity there so let's talk about that you know that shift in diversity it's interesting you're saying that because we still hear a lot of discussions and noise coming

From report with regard to corporate value enterprise value we see you know week in week out a new conference being had or Brad leading the conversation talking about new partnerships so I wanted to understand your position or

With ripple itself because you yourself you know you're very much the anarchist you're one who is always supporting the change and development of finance to help the people so in ripples respect you know let's

Talk with that for a moment because clearly you're very much a proponent of XRP and what they're what they stand for but what about ripple yeah so initially I heard about it and I'm like yeah that's the banker coin I'm not I'm not

Doing that but there was a friend of mine named Virgil he created this group on Facebook it's private no you guys can't join there I always get requests every time I get up it's called Lambos hookers and blow they

Brought me in there of course he was an earlier Bitcoin guy you know has his big house with the half mile driveway that he drives his r8 into in an indoor swimming pool and just he's doing well right they brought me in and kind of

Explained this to me and I I was pretty hazards I'm like no that's not for me I'm not getting in bed with the banks and and so forth and over time you know we had some conversations and I came to realize this things happening whether we

Want it to or not nothing you or I can say or do about it it's gonna change that however by buying XRP in my opinion you know not investment advice but I'm just giving my opinion by buying it and

Holding it I think it's going to do tremendously well and you know at that point I will have the resources to bring about some of the changes to bring about some of the alternatives that will help humanity evolve beyond the kind of

Systems that we have today that enslave us and entrap us and you know from that perspective it's like okay yeah I can I can kind of so like I don't like that ripples doing all this ky caml I mean those are choke points how much you know

Bitcoin started out oh it's anonymous and this and that well how much of it is traded on the exchange and went through a kyc choke point and the government's got access to that you have change sorry just lost you forever I mean all

Of this data mining and so forth on behalf of the IRS and the the DEA and everybody else Ripple's working with them as well so they're you know they're I mean I use I like the frog in the pot analogy they're

Turning the dial up a little bit at a time and this is another step but at the same time I also see through this process and we talked about this a little bit before the show it's going to move the masses into greater awareness

And understanding of crypto today it's it's still this tiny little thing that most people don't even know what bitcoin is around the world but that's changing and I think ripples going to bring crypto to the masses and you know at

First it's going to be with the with the banks and the payment processor processors and so forth but I don't think it'll be long before they you know catch on and say hey we could cut these guys out completely

Especially once you have you know the system moved over and the value is actually in crypto cos right now it's in Fiat and that's true and some of these other assets but once crypto is really holding some value and get some

Stability and you know how much stability is I think something we could debate but I think that's when the masses will move away from kind of the establishment and and and out and maybe into some privacy coins and things like

Digital cash and that sort of thing so where we can move away from this system that's really yeah well let's hope so Sam because that's obviously one of the reasons why many people started it's what piqued their interest and it really

Fuels them and and right now we're seeing steps towards that and you're alluding to that now with remove maps being part I wanna clear of that process whether they don't likely or not so the people are starting to really grapple

With the gravity of blockchain and what it can actually do now let's talk about that in the context of cross-border payments because that fundamentally is what XRP is a function as a digital assets doing and it's also

What ripple stands for with his technology so how important is it to break the borders down to really make payments global so I you know I don't know that it's so much cross-border payments but getting the friction out of

Payments is what ripple talks about okay and you know the sort of catch phrase that they use is making money move as easily as an email does so we have this internet of information and there's been all kinds of startups and things to

Trying to do micro funding or trying to monetize this or support this artist but when you have a system that the smallest unit that you can charge is 50 cents and you got an in or credit card and do all these things that that does it doesn't

Work and I think what ripples doing and this is another part of kind of the another side to ripple that I think most people don't know about they have this sort of VCE it's part venture capital but also they're they're just it's an

Investment arm to develop the ecosystem and while their main focus ripples main focus is on removing the friction from payments that's kind of like the ticket to the ball on the side they have all of these companies that they've invested in

To develop the internet of value so that's things like micro payments coil is doing micro payments so my channel I you ought to monetize your channel so as people watch this that are coil subscribers like me it will stream XRP

To you right so you know that that's happening they're doing all kinds of things with you know another part of X or Pele that we haven't talked about is the ability to do i/o use or issuances to digitize and tokenize assets you've

Got solar solar genic I believe putting stocks on the XRP ledger so you'll be able to trade fractional stocks you know very quickly and easily it's just it's opening up a world where we're gonna have this machine david schwartz

Talks about this where we'll have the ability for machines to pay other machines so like you know as easily as your phone you know you go somewhere and turn it on and you might make a phone call going down the road and cross three

Different carriers networks you don't have to know any of that stuff is going on behind the scenes it just works right and that's and the fact that most people in the world won't need to have this kind of depth of

Knowledge know that yeah that's also going to be a key point is that it's just going to be a given that this interaction with tokenized economies are going to be more commonplace as we see as digital assets really come to the

Fore as part of a new movement and a new economy that locally yeah and I think crypto you know to a large degree has failed in that because yes we have wallets and they're fairly easy to use but like trying to explain this to my

Mom I usually go very well it's yeah you usually have to go over and help her you know do all this jump through the hoops and so forth and I think what ripple is doing is really integrating and you know making it ready for mass adoption I mean

It as simple as using the telephone I say and it's almost about commoditizing is well expanding the scope of what existed initially which was the XR PL ledger and protocol so want to go back to that for a second and ask you because

Even brad has discussed how XR p as a protocol as a ledger and then the emergence of XRP existed before ripple so how is that the case you know how does it remove from the ledger across to the company now what was the real reason

To establish in a soda company you know that was relatively about profit and centralization and growth you know globally when we already had the open source protocols and technology there in place to build something okay so if we

Go back to the history of ripple you had couple characters that I think were pretty important jed McCaleb once teller now he came up with the idea of the consensus protocol which is the basis of the XRP ledger and you had

Another guy named Ryan Fuger who created the ideas of IOU Network and he actually created that before Bitcoin and those two components I think they just bought the technology from Ryan and Jeb joined the team at Ripple and was there for a

While until they had a falling out and he went off and started stellar so they created they basically created this thing and then they're like all right now we've got it it's great it solves some of the problems of Bitcoin because

You know you've had people like David Schwartz and Arthur Britto and some others who realized early early early day I mean we're talking 2012 and before this Bitcoin thing is going to run into

Scalability issues it's just yeah which it has and consensus was the solution to that so they they knew like I think we've got something what do we do with it and that's where they decided to create Ripple

And then the company and then open labs which was what created the XRP ledger and freemind the hundred billion XRP they gifted 80% of that to ripple the company so that they could use it to develop the

Use cases for you know which were solve the problem of payments I say so do you think that XRP wouldn't have the kind of way to do it does now if we didn't if you if the team didn't make that move and build out something trying to expand

The use cases of X ok yeah absolutely you know I mean the and that's what I think people don't get is I mean look how many coins we have with it's over 3,000 now and how many of them have utility that's what's about to separate

There anything the boys very very few salmon you know this I mean one of the things that many of the main nets and the inner tokens should evidence quickly and empirically is utility and most of them don't and

That's simply because they emerge as pre utilities or as andreas would say he would say securities so you know we see things shift and we're certainly going to discuss the idea of security later but I wanted to just really touch on the

Kinds of vertical so that ripple does now represent if we talk about microfinance for example empirically looking at some of the evidence of some of the partners for example that they've made and forged that should feed into

The success now of X of P as well so what kinds of focus areas are they really looking at today to open up finance across the globe so there's been a just a flurry of investment from they call it spring I

Call it X spring because it has an X in front of it instead of an S right but they've just been throwing money left and right at various companies so we have everything from there's a wallet that has one point of user base of 1.5

Million users that they gave I think it was $750,000 to to say here integrate XRP see what you can do with it there's solar genic which is going to digitize and bring the stock market to the XRP ledger you've got things like project

You you been or urban going on in I think it's Singapore or with the Hong Kong Monetary Authority and others and there they're going to basically settle securities there's multiple phases to the project they've completed phase one

I think there they may have completed phase two and there's a phase three which is delivery versus payment that's the one that's to settle securities transactions and that's gonna be a big deal because the

Laws are going to be in their favor in Hong Kong we know now that blockchain is a real deal they're almost Pro crypto but in the security sense so certainly aligning it with a country

That is so progressive is going to be a value I would think to both xip and ripple yeah they created a regulatory sandbox to allow you know hey go and figure this stuff out and then we'll work out the regulatory aspects later so

It's been very Pro crypto that's why I think ripple held the swell event there because of you Ben you've got the the not the hunk HKMA but the monetary authority Authority of Singapore there's a meaning where Brad's in the room with

Christine Lagarde and the Augustine Carlsen the head of the Bank of International Settlements and he's actually sitting next to the guy from the monetary Monetary Authority of Singapore and they're presenting to

Those two as well as a group of central bankers that are in the room so yeah they've been really given the green light and I think that's going to play a big role that they're gonna play a big role in that region of the world or as

Using Ripple building liquidity and and getting the thing off the ground right and and Brad has always said that liquidity is part of the race as well making sure that there is substantial liquidity it does a lot of through the

Research no doubt you have done in many others there is a strong suggestion that liquidity is really growing with the ripple and xip network but do you also feel that beyond that Asian scope you know we're looking at the moves that

Hong Kong Singapore and others are making that we're also seeing the interests of developing regions like particularly Latin America for example I like Mexico I hear a lot of talk from from governments but more importantly

From startups and enterprise sectors and business sectors they're talking about real utility in the future in utilizing the digital asset so it's interesting how there's breed acid is now starting to have potentially

Real utility in these regions that made it yeah the the ripples brought out the example several times of like a company that has remote employees all over the world and you think of this in terms of uber or somebody like that and you know

You add two to three days of friction or $50 wire transfer fees for a cab fare that might be twenty bucks and it's like how does that work so there's a real use case that solves a real problem and that's well they announced a few things

One that there's a market maker in Australia flash FX did you hear about that yeah I did I actually watched press present with a few others on stage recently that's okay good deal so yeah there are basically a new corridor so

The the other thing that's going on you know going back to liquidity I'm actually on the other screen over here putting together a money gram video breaking down their core q3 earnings call and they disclosed in that that

They actually have a deal with ripple where they get paid for creating liquidity and building liquidity around the around the world for ripple net right so so their incentive to you know start pushing volume and they have

Basically as much volume as ripple net in handle so they're kind of the the pregame I guess to warm up liquidity around the world so that's happening that's that's starting right now they they announced as well that they start

They're opening the Philippines with coins pH payment corridor the one in Australia is launching I think next they've got one in Brazil that's coming online for after that and then they gave three regions the Asia pact which is

Going to be clearly SBI because they they already have I don't know if you know about SBI but basically Yoshi cattell created this sort of conglomerate of I believe it's 37 banks in the region and these are

Pretty good sized banks and he is a super on board he wants all of them using xrp using ripple net you know so very very enthusiastic he was actually moving faster I think than ripple was in the early days getting all these banks

On board so they've got a real customer advocate I guess and he's since joined the ripple board and so on so that's coming up they also mentioned the Middle East region and they're working with central bank's over there

With I'm forgetting the names of the banks but largest the largest banks in the UAE in Dubai there's there's been pilots where two central banks in the region are testing ripple net back and forth so tremendous activity going on

Over there so that one's coming up and then they also mentioned Latin America so apparently Brazil is not it's just the start of whatever they're doing yeah he talks in Peru as well that will run stage talking yes and also Mexico

There's a big play there I think happening with it : yeah so Mexico is bit so and yes that's who MoneyGram sending all their transactions through because with with it used to be called ex rapid now it's

Called ODL or on-demand liquidity there MoneyGram is basically buying XRP on a u.s. exchange sending it to a bit so where they sell it for mexican pesos and then complete the transaction so we've seen in the last a few weeks or actually

The last few months when the partnership there's there's graphs of this on Twitter and so forth but basically when they started testing there's a liquidity index and that was just running at a flat 250,000 a day and then it just

Started building and building and today it's I think it's close to five million a day right is actually saying to be proven as opposed to what we do see a lot of which is fake volume in many startups like I'm making Wash

Trading and all the other that goes on in crypto what you're saying is that liquidity is not only a core focus for ripple and XRP but it's done now starting to become proven with these real partnerships that are emerging to

Create it yeah so the the exchanges with XRP one of the differences between it and bitcoin is you have this reserve requirement to where right now it's set to 20 the the validators can vote to change it anytime they want but that's

Kind of stuck in the wallet until the reserve requirement gets lowered and there's also a proposal to be able to delete accounts where you can recover I think it's three quarters of the twenty XRP rightly so for exchanges they don't

Like with Bitcoin you'll get your own address and then they'll move it into their their folder with XRP you have a destination tag and so because of the Ledger's public people have gone in there and done queries and we actually

Know which two accounts MoneyGram is using to move the XRP or these transactions so we see exactly you know down to the dollar how much they're transmitting I think it's I think it's around a million a million five a day

Right now I know they like turned it off when they mate when when he was on stage it's well probably because they were worried about volatility in the announcement or whatever yeah we sold things on fault they say at that time as

You know yeah we can talk about that if you want but it's just an it it's even I think it's over five million I mean it like almost doubled from what it was pre swell so yeah because you ramping up very quickly and I do want to talk to

You about that a conference and the implications of that in a moment but before we I wanted to also ask you about your thoughts on how much the team actually holds of XRP in terms of ripple for

Example as you mentioned before they are huge investors in the xrp and also with regard to the specifics with regard to key stakeholders in the team if we go back to Chris Jed and the like Maya when I was doing my research I was a little

Bit concerned about just how much some of these parties actually helped Jed for example everyone knows he said to sell off his interest in XRP yeah as far as I understand so I want to understand your viewpoint on just how much was afforded

Of the digital asset to the team whether you thought whether we thought that was just and also any inherent risks perhaps in having such a huge stake rippled that ripple has in xip today okay so let's start at the beginning they they had a

Hundred million one hundred minute hundred billion that they started with what made it over to ripple was eighty billion so of that 20 I think Larson kept nine billion Jed kept nine billion and then I think Arthur Britto

Got to maybe I have something something along those lines um so basically 20 percent yeah yeah which is a lot so I think Jed was wanting to like give it back or give it all over Larson didn't Chieko crypto we

Were talking about before he released of a video kind of explaining some of that you know it's it's done we're not gonna change it the whole controversy that's why I went to ask you your thoughts on it because yes it happened but obviously

When to find out the implications of it and what it means for the future of both both people in xfe so you know the whole controversy with Chad was that he threatened to dump it to try and crash the token and basically give a big fu to

Ripple they took him yeah oh yeah I mean really there were two things going on so one he like hired his girlfriend to work for the company but he also liked his strategy that he pitched to the board

Was apparently hey let's do fate a big Facebook giveaway and that was his plan for distributing the tokens and the rest of ripple was like no you know we're gonna actually use it to build liquidity and to build the ecosystem which is if

You look you know ripples sold a little over a billion dollars worth of XRP and 500 million of that has gone into coil spring projects and so forth – the difference between gift gifting and utilities oriented approach which is

Really where the the Lasser went where it's where ripple went it seems with their focus and also where the money where the 18 billion so so Jed's agenda was really like the more airdrops style it seems the more egalitarian and it's

The people's money will get it out and then they'll all start using it that's interesting because now we see Stella do their major burn with their token yeah actually aligned with that you know that thought because it burns very different

To giving it out to the people in a sense other than which price which they're doing with the space drop through key base so they're gonna give away I don't know what the exact number is but it's I think it was a hundred

Million plus or something like that but again it comes down to utility if you don't have utility that that's what's going to give kryptos the value once the hype is gone and that's what's gonna separate the chaff it's such an

Important point you're making because it's one thing to create distribution you know people have suggested in the Bitcoin it would have been better to have a more equitable distribution from the asset rather than it just evolved

Naturally but the reality is if utility is not there what's the bloody point you know for the long term it has to be sustainable value it can't just be you know a means of having an asset that has value short term that has

Revalue apportionment it actually has to have something beyond it that's transact all that's usable so it's just interesting you know what you're saying is that that money that I didn't know about the 80 billion is actually going

To something very specific and that is utility yeah now to kind of put to rest the the concerns that ripples this is a big pump and dump y'all they're gonna take and sell it all off and so forth what they did is they created escrow 40

Monthly escrows that release over the next I think it's four to five years where they put a billion per month in into escrow and that releases on the first of every month there's always people it's big dump whatever they

Usually take two to three hundred million of that XRP keep put it into their working accounts that they have and then the other seven or eight hundred million goes back into escrow it's a rolling window basically right

And then they have about six billion I think that's in various I've done a lot of digging on the ledger in various accounts that I've at least I think they're the ripple accounts and the other thing that's a little odd is

There's five or six exchanges that have a billion XRP in cold storage and so and the weird part about it is they have there different sizes exchanges so like I don't think for a minute that these five

Exchanges all decided to hey we've got three hundred and thirty million dollars burning a hole in our pocket let's throw it into XRP and then just sit on it let's talk about that because you have I'm sure you're a skeptic as some of the

Questionable conduct that goes on in the broader scope of crypto exchange is not part of that so when you become cognizant of the kind of serious holdings that some of these exchanges have in cold storage is it possible seem

That that's because not just with the XRP as a digital asset but with many others they do this to capitalize on the current scenario we see play out play out which is an unregulated sort of speculative environment do you think

That sometimes the conditions of the market are because of those actors not because of ripple not because of xip sort of team members but specifically those who want to affect price and can if they have the right holdings if they

Have weapons right liquidity behind them to create a change in volume beyond the controls or behind the the the sentiment that is in ripple or in XRP because even Brad going houses talked about how you know he can't control what goes on in it

Through exchanges he can't control the outcome of the market I think a couple things a we definitely have whales that are in there manipulating I mean you've got so many of these smaller cryptos that are just such thin markets it's

It's so easy for them yeah it's easy pickings kind of thing right and B I think tether is really a very much being used as a manipulation tool I know it just came out that oh we're a hundred percent capitalized again and I'm like

Okay how did that happen exactly so I you know I state I don't I basically buy and hold but I would stay away from tether I just I think it's a time bomb waiting to go off I don't know other some exchanges that

Are in there part of this as well inevitably yeah somewhere in the world I don't know if it's all of them or a very small number of them or what but there's been plenty of evidence of that right and I wonder

How you know if this will play out in the future as utility starts to drive market places and that will be only a certain small few initially and then hopefully that number will increase of genuine startups that have their proof

Of value surely the the space will clean up in time as regulation starts to come forward as well well so the way I've described it to my audience is utility is the floor and as utility increases

The floor increases and the amount that the Wales can manipulate will shrink as utility grows so it's not going to go away but it's I I think eventually the amount of the flows that are happening with XRP and you know with any other

Crypto that's going to have real utility will meander you know manipulation attempts less and less profitable and eventually a moot point I think a lot of us you're looking forward to seeing more credibility in a

Space in tight as time goes on now let's move back to the recent conference with ripple ripples to well because I don't quite understand the controversy and I'm sure you do you've been following an eyesore Alex Saunders comment on this in

His Twitter you guys have spoken and at length twice so what actually happened there and why was this public black backlash you know so abrupt and so so quick what public backlash I just well just on Twitter for

Example we saw well let's just say the crypto public anyway they'll responding you know there were some suggestions that you know the intention to have a platform through the conference was to build up and really really showcase

Liquidity but the outcomes apparently were in the market it didn't it didn't correlate there was just become a dump that kind of thing yeah yeah okay no no no what you mean so was back up like a week before that

I actually did a video on it where I showed the transaction volume was at the all-time high from the 2017-2018 on a pump or bull run and I started digging into that and I found out that somebody was in there had created at the time it

Was a thousand XRP accounts which twenty XRP per account times a thousand somebody spent basically seven grand to do this and then a few days later it was over fifteen hundred so they threw another three grand at it and what they

Were doing is at first they were trading XRP they they basically set up an A to B so they would trade a to B and then B to a and then A to B and then B to a just wash trading back and forth between these thousand wallets right then they I

Think some of them ran out of funds because the network fees are getting burned a little bit and lowering the balance so then they switched to trading they created a Bitcoin issuance or an IOU which was not actually backed by

Bitcoin but they were sitting there washed dating Bitcoin back and forth and they could do that because even though the the reserve the twenty xrp reserve on some of the wallets had dropped below twenty XRP because they weren't actually

Trading Bitcoin they were trading the IOU they were able to just keep burning you know Sonny doing the wash trading and then they switch back to X RP for a while I think when they added those new wallets and now they're back to trading

Bitcoin so I think that that was clearly and and I kind of walked through in the video okay there's three things it could be and I eliminated it and I think it came down to it's a whale trying to

Manipulate the market and we started seeing articles about transactions are at an all-time high you know is somebody testing something is something big coming so it was an attempt to manipulate the crypto press

Into hyping this up as something bigs come in it's about to be announced and of course what the year before it it peaked at the conference and then dumped afterwards so they were hoping for that pattern again and that's

Exactly what we got so I think they were in there buying before sold at the top and then crashed it down and her probably buying back uh you know I mean a bigger position now it's really interesting and thank you for doing that

Research and letting us know about some of the findings you had now saying what are your thoughts on trading more generally because obviously when there's the majority of people in this in this space looking for short-term gains

Sometimes that can compromise the overall you know the the overall long-term goal the vision that many of us have to try and be part of something that's revolutionary you know for want of a better word so the short term

Trading sometimes can really showcase means of capitalizing on things that don't even exist in the sense of either they're not utilities at all or won't ever be or they're in their utility stage trying to get to that point where

The perhaps they can emerge as something of value using the capital that they afford given to them by the investors as pre utility investors so I always find that you know a challenging sort of thought that the trading now has become

Paramount to prospective value my view on trading is if you want to you want to take a take your digital asset a few thousand of them and turn it into a few hundred I can certainly help you I have not successfully traded I'm you

Know there's people that do a lot of ta my view is just to buy it and hold and you know I don't really know when this thing's gonna take off I you know I see I look at all the things building and all of the roads that they've the

Infrastructure that they've been putting it in place winners liftoff who knows what forms are gonna take I don't know I don't want to be caught out and I'm happy to sit back and wait so I'm much more of a long-term investor right um

You know we had there's a lot of people that provide tips and insights to me over Twitter and one of them said hey go buy all of these alt coins back in I think it was late 2018 I'm like no way not touching it had I done that most of

The ones that they that he this is crypto bear there's a YouTube account most of the ones that he pointed to like doubled and it would have been a great chance to really make some gains there right it can happen you know

It's it's all right it's a question the question is saying what's the what's the truth behind that game you know is that you know something that is organic or is that something that's just simply trend transiently pumped pumped for the short

Term by parties we don't even understand perhaps because often as you've seen the volatility is such that some of these make gains but they also mexican we became all backs as well yeah well and that's really like a confusing thing for

Me is I think some of these are actually pumping on news on partnerships and so forth we look at ripple and extra AP and like we got we got truckload we got cargo ships pulled news and it does nothing to price but like in some of

These and maybe it's just because they're such smaller markets that they're more impacted there's certainly a pump-and-dump aspect to it of people hyping things like we I've talked about that where I've seen at least a half

Dozen times now people coming in to Twitter talking about how great this product is and Sam you need to check this out you need to talk about this yeah you gotta you go look at the price chart and it's cuz it's run up 20

Percent in the last week or so that Lisa mm-hmm and they were the early investors and now they're just trying to keep it going well it's interesting because it even gets the point where the front line of influences and I was speaking with

Omar Baum about this crypto 0 toy and the truth is that there are certain groups that exist that are engineering you know the outcome yeah yeah and they often are very illiquid sort of scenarios or liquid startups but again

There's no bloody point I in my opinion trying to support anything doesn't perspective utility so that often the case of for many of these parties that are in these groups whether they be influencers whether they be VCS

Whether the exchanges whether they be any of the so-called consultants behind the scenes many of them are doing it for short-term gains and they don't give you you know a flying F about the long-term utility and so you know your position is

Much like mine those that hold we risk very much being wrecked if we make the wrong bet on utility because of everything is a gamble but at the same time you know we still maintain that we have that utility focus it has to have

Something more than just a blockchain bet but for many in crypto they don't care you know in quite you know reasonably because of the speculative environment and the mean that the prospects of gains that seems to play

Out as the bigger picture right now I get into a lot of back-and-forth with Bitcoin maximalist and I just slaughter them with facts you usually they have a lot of misconceptions about XRP or whatnot and eventually it inevitably

Comes down to well here's the price of XRP here's the price of Bitcoin we've outperformed you ha ha and it's like okay what are you investing in when I'm looking at a project I'm looking for a utility or I'm looking for the potential

Impact so there's a handful of projects like holo which is about decentralizing the internet that that's we got to do that we got to get away from these centralized platforms like Twitter and YouTube that are trying to control us

And censor us and guide what we're allowed to talk about and yeah we've got it we've got to get free of that that's one of the everything that's been happening since the Internet is all about be centralizing and breaking down

These power structures and in a sense they've built themselves up and they've you know created their ivory towers and we've got a we've got to build our own and get people to come coerce or convince people to leave those platforms

And move into the alternatives they're better solutions right and so if a project stands to have that kind of impact on society I'm willing to throw a little bit at it and hope for the best you know I know I know a lot of them

Aren't gonna work or for one reason or another but those are the things I look for so do you think that part of the the collusion that does exist in this phases is I guess like into the wall being pulled over our eyes because sometimes

Those who are so future driven you know really believe in the fundamentals sometimes as I've mentioned not only do they get rekt but they get sometimes left behind in the pace of speculation so going back to this conversation about

The token for example we see volatility is rife it's it's a norm in crypto but when we look specifically xip for example one thing's for sure is that that token value today does definitely not correlate with all the growth

Whether you look at it from mainstream work that Brad's done to talk about that in the mainstream you know it's fear of finance you know he's done more than almost anyone I know to really bring forth the the xip agenda and the Racal

Agenda to the masses so you would think naturally okay if there's more business being done you'd see an increase in the value of this token we talk about things like sound token economics and token modeling to make these things happen but

The big question is why isn't it happening no we don't see enough proof in the correlations of token to business growth or startup growth or foundation break depending on what they're doing and many just rely on that short-term

Shield as you mentioned something definitely didn't take that route because if it did we would see the price substantially higher today than it is yeah so a number of things there one I it's it's a large issuance you know it's

One of the top three cryptos and I think a lot of times people will look at something that's way down on the list or a way smaller issuance and much less liquidity then XRP has and they're like well why isn't it doing this

When did this annex our P's nothing you also have a guy named Miguel vias who works for ripple he used to run the comics and and do liquidity for gold and silver now he's working for Ripple and he's working to rebalance the payment

Flows so as money grams dump in a million-five in XRP unbid so every day he's in there working with other market makers to put together deals that will help them you know come in and buy that so I say what you're saying so really

What you're saying is that despite that we're talking about a huge market cap when it comes to XRP the perspective growth is going to be built on utility and it's not for those who want you know 10x tomorrow essentially I mean if we

Get real that's not how except is going to work it's going to build on sustained long-term growth but those who want to play that crypto game even today in a bear market there's still those very liquid assets that move on the breath

You know of the influence that I'll move on the you know on a quick statement let it out by coin disc or coin Telegraph or something like that so you certainly I'm suggesting sound food for thought because in 10 years time the question

Will be where are they and where's XRP and ripple mm-hmm and I still think we could see you know look at what happened when it ran up to 380 those were huge moves I I definitely think that could come back and we could see that again

But you have you know you have the hundred billion you have Ripple up until recently they were issuing 250 million a quarter of new supply into the ecosystem they've cut that way way back so that's kind of changing a little bit there's

People that suggest what Miguel is doing is kind of suppressing price maybe some other people have pointed me to the by Nance u.s. order book and they're seeing like or xrp trades just happening all the time moving it up

Or down just a little bit okay so maybe there's some kind of manipulation going on there III don't know yeah well I think you're right I mean once again we really don't know the depths of manipulation

Happening across the board for many of the different assets because again the stage of crypto is so unregulated it really offers you know a very mixed bag when it comes to actors in this space but once again harping back to the

Long-term value I think that's really the asset that you're talking about yeah I agree you know I'll say the conspiracy theory is that rope was holding the price down to onboard as many banks and FIS as they

Can to get them to buy it put it in custody whatever so that when it appreciates they have every reason to want to use it down the road so maybe there's some truth to that I don't know right well I want to talk to you about

When Brad mentioned that there are over 200 banks now and these are significant banks around the world is it 300 okay 300 so talking about a lot and I don't want to use that to hype or FOMO I'm friends with Gilbert Verde and who is

Associated in directly with ripple actually through his own work he's working on overloads you at the quanta network but what's interesting is that quite rightly many people comment on quanta Network versus quantity Oken it's

The same instance here with all the issues we're talking about they have a very small market cap comparatively they certainly don't have the access to the kinds of exchanges but they both have that professional and collegial

Connection but Brad certainly would know of Gilbert but moving back to the question of real real value I think it's interesting how right now we don't see that that's the the there's a lacking in that conversation to really understand

How imperative the utility is for the future but but as we know right now is that for the most part crypto is underpinned by price it's underpinned by profit it's and opinion bitcoins evidence of this even inhalations has

Said there's not necessarily an intrinsic value in Bitcoin if we compare it to gold for example with its history and with its utility but he said it doesn't matter his argument was that you know fundamentally

If there is an asset that you know upholds belief I'm a people you know like Bitcoin is I use the term Napster a lot you know that it it's it's peer-to-peer money and there's value in that and being able to without it going

Through a third party there's no counterparty risk without an intermediary I can send money to anybody in the world that's utility there's value there you know that gave us something just like

Napster was peer-to-peer for music but in the end it was you know it's BitTorrent the that gave us the better features and better functionality and better customer user experience right one day is that utility agnostic that's

What I often respond backs I've heard Brad talk about that same comment of Napster and I think it's a good so metaphor perhaps but once again because things open-source Sam is it fair to say that the technology itself of Bitcoin in

Many ways when we talk about that Peter Piot capacity is agnostic because it was appropriated it was you know reinforced it was developed upon by many different stuffs so once again the utility if we use the argument Peter Pierre could

Actually be used in many different doodle assets yeah I don't use my biggest complaint about Bitcoin like in comparison to XR p is just scalability like that's the Achilles heel I think as far as usability and you know network

Features and so forth they're very much alike setting aside the whole is it centralized and because there's so many different aspects to that but both of them represent the ability to put you know get rid of the counterparty get rid

Of an intermediary to transfer value anywhere around the world anywhere on the planet and you know that's gonna have profound implications the difference the difference with XRP with ripple or I

Guess with XRP in the XRP ledger is you have this company ripple who's thrown down over a half a billion dollars to develop and flush out that ecosystem and there's a there's a book that I reference quite a bit it's I think it's

Quantitative no it's um yeah quantitative systems analysis or something like that but it talks about the the DVD standard how to become the global standard in tech and it's about getting control of the standards bodies

And you know making sure your product is kind of a shoe and for that of course inner ledger protocol the ILP ripple actually wrote that and then handed it off to the w3c it also talks about not trying to capture all the value for

Yourself and sharing that amongst other interested parties and giving out you know various pieces of the pie and that's exactly what they're doing with X spring and you know investing in all these various companies in a lot of

Cases without the expectation of a return just here go go build some utility Horace go develop the ecosystem so and bitcoind it doesn't have that I mean I don't it's not a knock against Bitcoin it started out though is oh

We're gonna replace the banks and you know the short the banks was a common thing by Bitcoin and then it turned into well a medium of exchange but then you know the functionaries in there and so certainly you know the question now is

Can this new asset be classed in its own type its own classification as what many call the sov or the store of value but we're to see we have to see whether or not the belief itself in this s it really up holds its value in the long

Term because of its scarcity we just don't know I think it's so it's a done deal in my opinion and the reason is you know what's the alternative today we have you've got gold and silver precious

Metals you've got real estate and you've got Fiat so those are basic three choices for store value yep Fiat money yeah I mean you you know you know it snows yeah it is it loses value every single day yeah its principle and

It comes with counterparty risk and it's just it doesn't have a good outlook not so good if you shake the magic 8-ball right and what's happening is we're moving into this world where it's gonna be seamless to move between fiat and

Crypto so once the masses you know get there to where instead of you know 1% holding crypto it's 90 percent where are they gonna keep their money exactly exactly and another thing is as we've always

Talked about to Sam you know different roles is that it's our evolutionary process this whole thing even with repo and rippling and XRP the same can be said that bitcoin in that yes the white paper existed and I have to admit I was

Much I was the die-hard sort of white white paper evangelist you know I wanted that white paper to be honored but I realized that it's just a beginning point you have and I think we have to really give each of the tech teams the

Space and the capacity to develop upon what they start with and right now as we look at Bitcoin it definitely functions as that store of value in a way we just haven't seen in history and the question will be whether

Or not waking up hold that in the context of us of a new financial paradigm and still have others that are moving towards settlement moving towards you know global payment solutions and then even other currency stable coins

Are coming in the mix now I just see me calling right now on merging as a very different asset class to what it initially started with and perhaps if there who does all to move along with the times you know that's the other

Question I think we're gonna see a world where we have all of these walled gardens on that will have varying degrees of utility within the walls and I see xrp really being the bridge between all of those different wall

Gardens those are gonna be yacht those are gonna be things like Libra you know various Kryptos and stable coins and whatever else and that you know that's the system and you know eventually though

Fiat is going to just tank in demand because if I can move quickly in and out of it why would I keep my money in this depreciating asset and that's gonna be that's gonna cause major problems for the government's yeah they're responding

What happens when they need you know a trillion dollars for the next war and they print it but there's no demand there's no that we've lost eighty percent of the utility because it's moved over into crypto that does not

Bode well for them and that's I think the next big um conflict or I don't even know what to call it but there's there's there's big changes there storm storm clouds on the horizon and that's I think what it's their certain Lea indicators

Of that currency crisis happening now you know people talk about 2008 as a major event I think we're going to see other catalysts come forth to really showcase what Bitcoin and beyond and I really stress that beyond in terms of

The scope of xip ripple and many others because this is where that the whole the paradigm shift is going to happen the question will be in that trial trade of corporates of government and then the people who is going to win out in this

Know all our all parties going to try and play a key role because with xiv and ripple while an advantage perhaps with the design and setup is that Brad going house has made it sure that he's in the pockets you know perhaps with some of

The key stakeholders in government there is that a good thing I don't know but I mean what are your thoughts on that it is so I've talked about this in a Libra video about the the whole Facebook Libra coin thing and kind of what I see

Happening is like a game of musical chairs at the seats you know and the table is the global financial system so it's all up for and if the central banks it's and it's a game you know goes back to Moneyball

Adapt or die it's a game of either you get with the times or you get left behind right now the companies that are using ripple net are the payment processors and the remittance providers and that's it the banks they're probably

A year two years out is is what I'm hearing so the and the thing is it's such a game changer when a company you know and this money ran bidding I'm doing is going to show that it's like eighty sixty to ninety percent cost

Savings when they're going when they're using ripple net versus the old Swift system of correspondent banking and so forth we have to get to scale granted but night and day difference so you can't compete I don't care if you're

Chase Bank or whoever else if money grant Graham can come in and provide those same services at ten percent of what chase can they're gonna start eating the lunch of every major bank out there right so how long do they want to

Resist and keep losing market share so it's inevitable this is where everything's going because they won't have any choice and if they choose otherwise they're not gonna exist yeah they're gonna be blockbuster right and

Sam you know what's interesting too as we talk about often we're in this crypto bubble in terms of the cohort that we often interact with but clearly with ripple and x RP and x RP specifically seems to be that the target market now

Has shifted away from the attention of many of the crypto speculators and now it's grabbing the attention of those in that utility realm now specifically so do you think it's fair to say that end time and we look at things like market

Cap as an indicator if you have those with significant market caps like ripple or like xip does my apologies is it likely that that will grow in accordance with a utility interest in the business sector and therefore be a little bit

Slower you know but perhaps more evidence by real value as opposed to what we see now which is that you know we move down in our market cap but the volunteer is much higher you know on a day trade

For example or a weekly trade do you think that's a fair analysis to make I think it's both that bad analogy of utility sets the floor and speculation is on top of that I think that's to a tee so as utility Rises speculation the

The influence of speculation on the markets will shrink and I think we're gonna see you know Brad I think talked about 90% of the crypto projects going away I think 99 yeah somewhere between 90 and

99 a lot of people have that view as well and it's not just those who are very much oriented in one camp Andreas Antonopoulos it's very vocal about it actually yeah yeah yeah and I tend to agree I'm assuming you do as well and

That surely is going to affect you know the attention on those that are more utility centric in the future if we have the collapse in the market that's likely with regard to if we're talking about fake utility surely the that will shift

Not just attention but money into those that actually have something did you see the the coin market cap acquisition have you seen that news no I didn't is that right yeah well I'm not sure what I just tweeted out about it

Somebody to make my she got my attention but basically there's a company that came up with like a real money index I people that I get all the time XRP can never be X amount $10 $100 $1000 because the market cap would be this

Much and it's more than GDP or whatever it's like okay what's the market cap of the bond market or of the US dollar it's not a it's not a valid metric has been my point and I've said a long time ago that somebody much smarter than me with

The financial background is gonna have to come up with an algorithm of some form or another that looks at utility that looks at liquidity that looks at you know the basics of the market cap calculation combines all that to get

And gives us some kind of index or metric because it's a new asset class and market cap doesn't work well that's what this company that coin market cap bought that's what they have done and they are supposedly implementing that on

The 12th I believe so soon yeah I mean because we need sort of I think developments even in that area because too many people relying on very sort of almost basic levels of information that are fought to try and make those

Speculative bets mark market caps of stock stock metric and you know the TA stuff well yeah there's some validity to it it gets blown up with water all the time as well because it's been built for years around the stock market and

Kryptos it's just a new beast it certainly isn't you would probably know as well there's also the question of whether or not there's veracity and some of the TA being done whether they're behind that there's an agenda to push

Forward a market much like media so it's hard to know what is true what isn't but I wanted to ask you about a tough question which events before I think and that's with regard to XRP as security simply because you know the lawsuit is

Relevant I know a Brad darling has to put forward very clear arguments as to why it's not a security and use evidence you know your own opinion about utility being the core the core acid itself but are you concerned at all about the

Lawsuit the fact that you know once again xiv existed before RuPaul etc yeah I'm not and I did a video on the motion that the guy filed or actually on ripples motion to dismiss I really think that's gonna get granted in January and

I think it will be granted with prejudice I'd be surprised if it's not right hey this this guy that's claiming will ripple ripple damaged me and sold me this security he didn't even buy XRP from ripple he bought it from an

Exchange and you know there's just so many holes in his argument too as well saying is that we saw evidence from aetherium as a guest president instead aetherium by design had a similar you know means of raising capital but

It's by no means regarded as security yeah so Jake Layton has come out and he's the SEC guy he's come out and said Bitcoin and aetherium are not security exactly he's been asked about XRP dozens of time or at least half a dozen times

And he just fumbles over his words and guy's a jackass I think very can I ask you that saying why are they doing it I've asked this question to several other parties as well off record but the question is why is it that they're so

Willing to speak about Bitcoin and if they're in being commodities but yeah why not all the others I just don't understand because etherium really in the nature of its evolution is not that different to any others trying to become

A utility in their own respect so it's hard to understand the reticence on their side yeah so you know we're gonna slip over to the conspiracy side here for a little bit okay so you know there's a lot of people that suggest

It's it's one of the things that's helped holding the price back until they're ready there's also a lot of people who are suggesting that the SEC is preparing this big crackdown where they're going to go through and just

Shut down a whole bunch of these or go after a whole bunch of these cryptos and/or crypto projects and a lot of them will disappear with ripple in in their case they did I think they they had their own wallets and it wasn't kyc AML

They were running afoul of the rules and they got fined by the there's F ATF or something so they pay they paid the fine they worked with the Treasury Department and the State Department I believe it was and both of them said it's a

Convertible digital asset or you know something like that but they basically came out and said not a security you have the the UK equivalent saying it's not a security there's been other countries saying it's

Not a security um rumor mill from swell is the it's worked out it's been worked out for a while they're not answering the question in public from whatever reason I don't know what that is

Well it's interesting too because as brad has said as well Sam is that when you look at a triple is specifically they have shares you know they have no and they raise capital specifically with equity so if they want to talk about

Shares if they want to talk about security that's where it is but in terms of net utility I would argue that there's more evidence of it being becoming more of that utility as more of that that bridging transactions been

Done as more businesses being had so it's going to be a big question but I still do like you I'm very cautious when it comes the SEC and the CFTC particularly because sometimes I just do not understand their reticence and I you

Know I questioned a lot about it so the thing that I tell people is well along these lines is look at who the people look at all the individuals and companies and organizations that ripple is working with I mean 50 central bank's

Lagarde the Augustine Carlson you know they every major commercial bank out there I mean I had someone tell me that General Electric is using ripple net right now for transactions under 25,000 and it was

Chase Bank that introduced them to it and we've heard nothing about ripple and chase Bay and a JP Morgan so you know I think what we see is even as big as it is and as much as there is going on it's the tip of the iceberg so you wouldn't

Be in there playing at these levels for the last you know they've they've been working with governments and banks since 2015 or really 2014 was when it really kicked off and it's just been growing from there you wouldn't be in there with

All these people and working with all of these large commercial banks with something like that hanging over your head they know it's not something would have happened already if it was yeah is it's a moot point in my

Yes I tend to agree and also given the size of ripple and also a mix-up hey I just having listened to some of the members of the SCC before I think that there would be very remiss to say the least to act in such light of the time

When there is such a significant market share of the crypto space held by XRP and the impacts that would have when they could have act earlier so I think that the fact they didn't also indicates a great deal with regard to whatever it

Is happening and being decided behind the scenes I would imagine you know I would speculate that it's in XIV's favor for the future so we'll get were yet to see I think when I'm folds there what are your thoughts on the competition

With regard to stellar clearly jerd heavies has his own agenda he wants to build something of his own we now see the burn happen should we be concerned because that strategy certainly and even Chico crypto has mentioned this he's

Right in the sense that that burn has attracted attention whether or not that could about it has from a pirate price point what are your thoughts though on stellar emerging as you know a competitor in the market like a a market

So big I think it's ridiculous to think that extra piece is going to capture it a hundred percent and they're gonna be the only game in town kind of thing yep not not gonna be the case clearly you have you know hyper ledger and you have

Ripple net ILP and so forth kind of competing a little bit you mentioned quant or yeah and I did a video on that and got some things wrong they I don't think they like me very much but yeah I did my best I probably need to go back

And do a follow up but you know you kind of have these two competing things and yes they interoperate in some ways but I think there's going to be I think ripples gonna be the dominant solution that's 80 90 plus percent and then there

Might be a handful of companies out there that are better picking up the fighting over the crumbs so there's so do you think it'll be lifestyle or the Google of remittances the Google of the bridging protocol the bridging asset

That enables this global trade yeah absolutely absolutely I use the analogy like I use the analogy with the dot-com that ripple is the Google the Apple music or the Google Apple and whoever like take the successful things

Companies at and its ripple because as big as the dot-com bubble was that was primarily in the u.s. you know it had global implications but finance is is huge in every country around the world and it's just such a scale

Difference from anything that we've seen it was really gonna dominate it's so interesting that you're so confident on this and what I like also hearing from you is that you aren't looking at that daily trade you don't I would imagine

Don't even look a price and on a daily basis I don't so in that sense I know that bread would be similar Brad darling house having talked to Gilbert he's exactly the same and many other CEOs leading out these ideas you know these

These endeavors to try and create some sort of technology that it makes for like settlements and and transactions and between different feared possible but we are they perhaps remiss in understanding just how many of us in

Crypto you know more generally I'm talking are so focused on price because whenever I hear that response from CEOs and it's all on record the response from the crypto market and the crypto those in the space who are against becoming is

So significant and it's so me triolic because again their agenda is very different do you think that you know skimming over the importance of price because the existing exchanges is a problem because often people like Brad

And Gilbert are in a position where they don't need to even look at it you know they're so focused on utility they're so confident in their in their product which is their technology but when it comes to price

That I'm hearing such a different you know response from the community um in ripples case you know they're working with these companies they're they're focused on their features the the problems that they're solving for

Customers and the customers don't really care about price like a bank music 3 seconds exactly that's that's my point a bank can use XRP to facilitate a transaction at 30 cents or at $300 it makes zero difference to them so yeah

And if it's at either price they're gonna make money because it improves their business process as they as from what they do today it makes it faster cheaper and lowers risk for them so what do they care about price and you know

You look at speculation market what is it you know a few hundred million a year a few billion a year versus five times a day and Swift transpose yeah hence the two point there's Swift 2.0 narrative that's coming for yes that

Makes no sense so really it's looking at the perspective value in the market which is being really a lot bigger than what we see in a very small ecosystem that is crypto so yeah like very noisy and loud so they certainly make their

Voices heard on Twitter and YouTube and elsewhere but again what is a bank here mmm that's a really good point I think because right now I did want to ask you given that it only takes about three to four seconds for the transaction for

That fear to fear you being the bridges xrp what what about stable coins though Sam you know one of the in interview with the Brad had done recently I forget which one but it was a mainstream interview one of the reporters had quite

Rightly asked about the value of stable coins because they essentially eliminate the problem of volatility but still uphold the dirty money that is fiat you know because that intrinsic link there's the question was posed why not

Just use a stable coin as a as a bridge why not just use that as intermediate between two three it sister-like monetary systems so that you can you know remove volatility from the equation and just create a Peter Piot seamless

Transaction if they built the utility if they built the liquidity etc well that's the key so ripples been working on building the utility and the liquidity for five years going on five years now you know that that's probably gonna be

One of the solutions the problem with it at a fundamental level is fiat has counterparty risk if you I've done a couple videos where I've pulled out clips from Putin doing his kind of State of the Union address and he's in one

Video he's saying you know I like our American friends you know they're our partners in this but they're really shooting themselves in the foot they are they're spending is out of control which Russia by the way they I think they had

A billion dollar budget surplus but they didn't spend they put that into interest bearing instruments and they're using that to fund part of the budget for the following year so you know completely different ends of the spectrum you have

Responsible fiat and government you know with Russia and like wildly out of control with the US and so and he said you know they're spending is out of control they have all these unfunded liabilities and we're stuck under this

Dollar as the global reserve and it's it's causing problems for them the whole BRICS is really a kind of coalition for them to try and get out from under the dollar and so they're trying to doing we're saying Joe try and do this the

Choice in Russia try and do this I think many of these countries will do this in fact you know that's not part of the real concern of the sort of the Trump administration I'd imagine because you know whose strength

So a u.s. dollar stable coin has the counter property risk of the underlying asset the US dollar or whatever it is and then you've got the counterparty risk of the issuing of the issuer so if that's JPMorgan Chase well then you've

Got a trust JPMorgan Chase and if you're you know Bank of America do you want to trust them and and then you know you get into okay you're a bank in South Africa and you've got JPMorgan coin and you need to send it to an Icelandic Bank are

They well how much utility are they gonna have for a u.s. dollar sign and the question also is what do you change you know fundamentally changes access you know in terms of 24/7 rather than on the in market time and the reality is

That we're here for a lot more than that everyone I don't like you even the speculators want more out of crypto than reinventing the old wheel and you still have the settlement problem with that so I mean if the Icelandic Bank wants to

Take a u.s. dollar stable coin they've got a deposit local currency in that account XRP solves this because they're selling the XRP in the local market with a stable coin okay how do I redeem that for value and how long does that take

Well that's the process all right I just wonder though whether Brad sees it as a threat I think he would a little bit because again in the markets today people regard volatility as a bit of a barrier to entry whilst you know ripples

Been around for some time as has xx IP and built a backing build a liquidity basis that we really haven't seen the likes of any other clearly you know still even in current markets even mainstream business volatility is a

Concern and certainly raising eyebrows so ripple just released I think is Brianne Madigan who's a really smart lady she put together a ripple insights article where they crunch the numbers and they proved with math that a XRP or

A odl transaction has one tenth the volatility of a swift transaction because of that three you know second holding time versus two or three days with the Swift Fiat system now and that's something we don't talk about

Enough we talk about Bitcoin in the context of let's say an eight-hour potential transaction time you know sometimes a lot faster we know that we very rarely hear people talking about the through two to three day time of

Know the old system so surely there's got to be benefits had with a two or three or four second ya know a stable coin might improve on that and come closer to that so maybe but again I think it's the banks are very cautious

Because they're moving other people's money around and they're responsible for it and so forth they're not just going to jump into bed with anybody most of them you know MoneyGram worked with ripple for a year and a half

Most of these banks have been doing you know have been talking to ripple for six months to a year then they trial for a year a year and a half and the design or their testing and do something else and do some of them pull out of the 300 I

Have some just said not doesn't work that's been like one of the things so people ask me would you ever sell your XRP or do you think it could fail and like that's one of the things that I look for that there's the only thing

Really is Western Union and the CEO and I think that's because with the system that we have today with correspondent banking it's expensive to keep those relationships around the world and so if you're if you're a Bank of America if

You're JPM if you're Western Union well you've got the scale to to have you know the 400 employees that it takes to manage all those relationships to move the money around and so forth and if you're a you know gun barrel City Texas

Savings and Loan or whatever you don't have that kind of staff so what do you have to do you have to go to JPMorgan pay their fees which are crazy absorbing it and so the players at the top the Western unions the

JPMorgan's and stuff they benefit from the existing system and ripple net levels the playing field and makes it cheaper for everybody even big or small so it's a threat to them and I think that's really kind of like what

Triggered the whole Western Union trash-talking Ripple it was always gonna happen soon and we know that because but the reality is that we need to change that because as people you know consumers in the world

When it comes to sending money and wiring money through it's just too bloody expensive for all of us and things have to change the technology is there then the people are going to like water I always say they will find their

Way through and they're going to and perhaps xip is one of the ways in which they do that but then we have talked at length you know I've learned so much thanks to you about so many aspects of XRP and in no way was this intended to

Be you know FOMO or height but it's been really an enlightening experience to learn that it's about utility at the end of the day it's not about profit necessarily it's not about engaging in all the crypto infighting but looking at

The future and what is going to have fundamental utility what is going to have proved ability what is going to expand the ecosystem so that people can benefit not just at the top but at the grassroots as well and you've let me

Help you help me understand exactly the differences between ripple XRP and what the and also some of the similarities and how this is all going to likely play for that in the future as we've changed the narrative if we change the game of

Money and and hopefully rhythmic remittances settlement is there anything mate that you wanted to finish off with so that people could I guess you know really capture the value of XRP oh gosh I don't know a good I'm gonna do a lot

Of videos on a lot of different subjects that dive into these topics yes find people's I should plug it you're like watching and I'm not trying to put our channel or anything but find somebody that that you resonate with and

Learn more I mean that that's the key is learning learning some of this for yourself and what I try and do is like take really complex stuff you know a quarterly earnings call that most people would would be drifting away from like

What I have no idea what they're talking about and make it simple and explain it so find somebody that can help help it make sense for you and learn about these different projects and then you know kind of trust your gut and and look at

The trends and where do you think things are going and place your bets so to speak what I like about the content you've done is that you're transparent and you're also in it relatively agnostic when it comes to each of the

Platforms and what I mean by that is your your key the key thing that drives you is utility so you know whether or not it'll be X R P or a be a some other platform for you it's about that long-term projection that potential you

Know if in the case where something presented itself as a problem or if it started to fail I imagine you're someone who would shift you know their position only so that's one of the reasons why I do respect what you do you know I don't

See you as someone stuck in you know a particular group no jaded by the shield but more so someone is trying to advocate for more than that through education in that very utility centric frame and I really respect that yeah and

Actually in this MoneyGram video that I'm putting together now a lot of its gonna be wow this is awesome this is really exciting they're doing all this wonderful things and then I'm gonna totally rip them a new one on their ID

Requirements so you know I'm happy to criticize you know I'll speak my mind whether they like it or not and I think my viewers kind of respect that and yeah I think that's the way things should be so absolutely my and how fingers crossed

That we start to see with all these developments sound money emerge regardless of what camp makes it happen I don't care I just want it for my kids so badly and on that road yeah I do too inmate thank you again for all of the

Work you do in providing education you spend a lot of time actually I noticed in your YouTube so if you haven't checked out Sam's work make sure you go to the lifeboats his YouTube channel and all

So he's on Twitter as well what is your Twitter handle against them Oh him and the letter end Sam right okay so reason I mentioned that is because I reached out to Sam found him there was it was quite an unusual handle but again he was

Always there to just give feedback it's Lincoln on my youtube channel I've got media social media links there and Brad oh and say this is a great discussion I think we covered some really good topics and spent the time to really kind of dig

Into him and I think there's were being really educational informative for a lot of people all thanks to you mate I mean I was just a student today but I think you once again for your time and hopefully we can catch up again in the

Future to look at specifics you know really reduce it down to Cora core aspects of XRP perhaps or ripple in the future so that we get those nice bite-sized chunks as well but for today was a long conversation very valuable

For me and for those listening you know once again thanks Sam for your time okay you

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