Redfox Labs | CEO Update | BlockchainBrad | Disruptive Blockchain Tech | SouthEast Asia Accelerator

by birtanpublished on October 3, 2020

hello it's Brad Lori or blockchain Brad and today I'm speaking with a fellow Aussie someone well respected in the crypto space for many years actually his name is Ben Fairbank he is the CEO of red fox labs some which is a start that many people have been talking about of late with a lot of news coming and he's here specifically to address all looked all the questions all of the information that's come forth about red fox labs and also the things that they're doing to develop so Ben may thank you very much for being here on a channel this is entirely free and it's all about trying

To allow you to have a voice to let us know about what you're doing thank you might be a very very happy to be here as always and uh nice to talk to for sure mate and you know once again you know whenever we do catch up we can have a chin wag for quite a while before and it's been interesting to hear just as a catch-up but now it's time to roll up the sleeves and find out what you are doing in leading it as a CEO for red fox loud spinning now I want to start with you know a bit of a recap because a lot of people may not know what you do as the CEO and you're not just a sea of red

Fox labs as well so give us a bit of a rundown on the situation in the scenario now yeah so as you know we've been going for a few months you know the market conditions are very very interesting in trying to start it's a it's an interesting battle trying build a team bring people on and then try and get them focused and get them to really like int vision that's been great for us because we've got a very very clear vision we've spent the majority of the last few months really getting people up to speed building an internal cultures we've spent all that time and effort on

Online material and culture because we believe that will flow back up and that's been really really really interesting stuff like every two weeks when swap hooks we all read assignment we go through that together we share our experiences we put them into the workplace but we're really honing in on the projects that we're building out and we're looking at developing partnerships through our network that has been from outside of the crypto sphere and that really really interesting and as you know on the flip side I'm also the genome of Komodo and

Kimonos the technology platform that we used to build our home so there's been the developments there so what we've been doing is we've been really focusing a say on earth in terms of the culture the vision the way we're going in the way where we're headed and then building these solid foundations but we've been trying to build foundations we have a lot of these traditional companies to be able to just sort of go with the mass adoption slowly got and Benny you know having known you for some time you're situated in that Southeast Asian built you literally moved so that you could

You know try and capture some of that market share some of that attention some of that you know taking technological innovation that's happening in that region but I want to talk about the the terminology with regard to what red fox Ladd's is website explains you're a blockchain venture builder can you just really make it clear for us exactly what it means to be an incubator or an accelerator and what fundamentally is your your focus you know and your point of value yeah sure so we've been very different I guess to a lot of the incubators and accelerators because what

We do is we've come up with a business concept and as Robert will do we look at predominantly China based businesses that have been very successful but offer a service that is in demand but lacking in Southeast Asia so obviously our home bases in Vietnam so what we then do is go about designing that concept working out how it implements it and we're quite different because what we do is we say how it blockchain enhanced the existing models of the business how can we make it more secure I can make it cheaper huckle to make it easier to do business but our extra or the further layer that

We go is we try and make it so that the end users don't actually know they're using crypto currency or actually healing with blockchain technology at all so while they're trying to swap out I would use to take for example to grab a removal with something that's an equivalent service and it would work in the exact same fashion but in the background what Chinese powering and these the companies that we start up underneath red fox most of them will not have any type of forward-facing Queen so–but it will not have to learn how to use a wallet how to trade on the

Exchange we don't have to go through the rigmarole of building up another audience and some sort of telegram and groups for all these as far as this insane way to get leads to get listed on these exchanges I mean a whole experience of a bit dodgy to be honest so it's only good for us to just sort of build on the tech and build real companies that have real end users that have revenue coming in and I don't understand why that it seems to be a pretty novel concept in the space right exactly my and you know you have that business background and it's really

Interesting to have this kind of kin to chat about how blockchain can actually be economically viable for mainstream businesses that particularly those that don't even know about the existence of blockchain or haven't really tapped into its potential but I want to move back to the conversation of that accelerating incubator because one of the unusual things or less common things in your architecture is that you are tokenized in the sense that it the token fuels the entire incubation and acceleration model so in that sense talk us through the

Need for this if indeed there is one for this utility token to really provide for the that a means in which you can drive the entire ecosystem forward because it is something that is not yet really known you know not really understood yeah sure so one of the things that were kind of fortunate that is one Komodos tech you can now have to take a particle supply what we're doing right now you can actually burn those so you can build those into another coin so we have the opportunity to be able to first we have further transactions going through and our red fox main chain and we can

Actually burn or melt coins and produce new coins now for example if we were to build a earth another business like the one that we're about to do we you know that new coin underneath Nazi and working in the background and as the sales mostly for that along there just needs to know how to use it our needs better wallet what happens is red fox barely becomes deflated who will in the sense that we're actually burnings by as but each new company were actually creating we have a new some new coins and therefore the coin supply diminishes but people

Can pay for the services that we provide it can take in treacherous there wasn't we do or consulting or anything like that I can use our point to receive this young and any of the ecosystems like like the one that we're about to create they will be able to use their existing red fox Queen to be able to achieve a discount in the end of his instructions that we bill right and absolutely that's really clear because you're built in the utility through the incentivization the discounts the use of this as essentially some sort of token model that we've seen in mainstream emerge when we see

Companies trying to incentivize so it's not something new in that sense but when you up all that with this this model of rid of the deflationary where you're essentially reducing supply through a burn model every mention with the melt how does that fit in like because one of the things about you Benny you've always been very forward you know you're very direct about realities of the the questions of the terminological sort of scenarios we see emerge when we see utility commodity utility security it gets really confusing for us when we start to see a different effects and

Different strategies used within them tokenizer take a token economic model I think to be honest with you learning on assembly projects don't need it claim there and to be honest if you just think a lot of these models are created to force on people and need to use that coin or that token and to be honest it's a bit sickening when you look behind scenes and you have to look at what people the links people will go to to try and force a coin down your throat you don't actually need that if we don't get any actual benefit of having really for using so for us as it's known we've

Had several models that we've decide on we're going to and question we keep getting nasties how come you don't have a bring a new queen for that that you'd do another ratio or an i/o for the rest of it nothing really want you to be mean through it I see invest well let's say Jesus not another Eleanor another ask you and these for the purpose of of doing that for no reason or for the sake of just having some sort of what I say but it's a bit it's a bit sickening really and they're not necessarily needed so we would rather have that point as an underlying

As I've as used what chain for security we use it as technologies underneath we don't want to force people to learn how to have 500 watts and 900 points just for the sake of what we'll wait till the next ball and everyone's going to get rich off that coin so we're a baby we've burners we've burned some of the supply that we already have about our main and that's the only point people are going to be able to buy sell trade and use the idea of ladies is not to build 10 stars and have intended coins because any other I mean the rim all you've got to go through to get listed

On the extraneous to Minden the amount of money that goes on the what happens behind the scenes is quite frightening and I think anyone who's prepared to launch team wins for example if I were a vegetable that he's I don't think they have the best intentions of public and you know what it's it's a great moment when we start to see more of this transparency and discussion about some of the things that you've certainly been privy to as you've been building some of this this tech for the future and trying to emerge as something of an incubator for innovative

Technology that's trying to you know essentially make gains in the mainstream trying to showcase what blockchain can do now moving back to the incentivization you know that's quite interesting because if mainstream can pick the benefits of this up you know for their own ends then they're going to see you know the value of discounts the value of mass adoption through the simplicity of the token itself designed for incentivization so we comes to utility I wanted to ask you about that term do you think we've hit the nail on the head when we say utility

Take it but is it really that accurate when we talk about I don't know yeah I don't know I don't think that most of the tokens do have much of a utility case at all and like I say I think a lot of these points the models or the way the companies that set out the reason that a lot of companies are doing failure is because they're not actually structured in a way that makes logical business sense and then many of you look at the reverse so I come from a traditional and conventional legacy moral background and if I go back and talk to those companies not bother with

Doorways into the scene that will knock and say have you thought about using blockchain and they say this baby could be mine and I say why and they say it's too risky because we've got we've got adequate systems yes they could always do with a bit of enhancing all the rest of it but the stability of the technology is not yet strong enough it's too much of the commercial wrist bracelet swap out the existing systems the new systems that may actually cause a problem that we don't actually have to provide a benefit that hasn't necessarily been proven in this fall to

Its full extent again so the other thing is you've got a lot of bad actors out there that are trying to tell these business entities these commercial businesses that in do a lot and it can it can wake you up in the morning make the bacon in the excellent the block the block chain has huge potential and has great and great functionality but they miss particular point in time we variable or very early so we thought it was better expiry build a traditional business model to build businesses that can compete against those models we understand how

Tech work so we can actually bring their take in individuals with and build upon that it's much more of Rispoli than existing business businesses that are already out there to integrate tech in its new and more stages which is why these types of loyalty need and reward points and all these types of things operate inside of businesses or as a value where it's less of a risk to implement though isn't and my it makes a lot more sense then because if we've seen traditional enterprises also have those side note incentivize tokenized models you know or

You know some sort of point system if you will then has some sort of monetary value then really we're not reinventing the concept but we're utilizing no technology to be more efficient and more effective yeah for sure and I think the thing is that there's you know people will say you're not impressed to come up with five or six if you talk about people to the anti block chaining anti anti crypto that I'll say if you're not oppressive come up with five or six really really strong use cases of this stage with the level of technology development to to really displaced by

Our systems but when you look at royal team awards for example but we need got sheer volume and depending where you've read forty eight percent of all of these programs get packed Ruth account takeover attacks they immediately understand it is huge money to be made by funneling out it means putting them into it accumulating those points into one account selling the cash it's a massive broad issue there's a lot of bad actors in that space as well and a lot of it's easy prey for hackers so that's it's an actual risk case with what turned ten actually already to

Provide a really good alternative right now and an extra layer of security but what again where I think people are doing wrongs you've either got a traditional model of points or you've got a blockchain model with a coin and someone has to work out a way to force the Queen that makes you buy the coin dimension buy more of the Queen that and then Athenians and people try and implement that in southeast they do it's illegal for you to use a queen in place of something that would be a currencies the banana currency so you buy an Amazon gift vouchers we've done

In Vietnam and everything's gone a little man and whose acquaintance by that so people have to like come up with creative ways to make these models where you don't need to all you need is doing a two point system what he used to be like you use on everyday basis but underneath of it don't worry underneath of it is blockchain working hard to make sure protected in spirit and making sure that those points are not open to count takeover attacks you don't need a new coin called loyalty went clean but you have to then go out and run raised ten

Million dollars or in try enough and try and enforce that beyond people's rights it's unnecessary yeah makes a lot of sense as you said and it also brings to the fore that new terminology on that new wording of digital asset because in that context it really becomes clear that the asset here is the rewards incentivization point opportunity that is enabled through that underlying sort of hidden block chain mechanism that many people don't need to know exists it's just a way that you know we enjoy a sort of tech centric speakers in the space but that is also

Synergized and juxtapose with the revenue that you can generate and that's you know in modeling in itself that you've created so talk us through that because you're making money for your centralized business model is distinct to the purpose of that token yeah so lucky the way we see you see people got an underlying token at my body speed to the point that one state effectively first my trailer to counter slide on any secondary markets the value of that coins Bailey right so I can say two months in it worth once in so the thing is that I can have we take swag battery

Thomas way back to the very well-known uniform multi-point company in States and that'll say 1,000 points is what ten dollars you can go on you can buy a $10 gift card it's very very simple easily people to understand being from a strong customer experience but then I don't want to have to learn something new if you want to show me it's cool and it's better and it's faster and stronger it's more efficient or whatever I'll have a look at it but if I have to go out and learn something learn how to use a queen and learning how to get a wallet how to do all this stuff I'm not interested

It's too hard and it's run out of time for that stuff so ultimately speaking the way that we would do it is unleash you would have to clean so you would have your points just like in a database instead like when should go on to your your marketplace to do the transaction transaction would be then settled in fears and the coins would then return to supplier we don't need to have this top-level coin that we still on multiple levels now and my honey is we would be rewarding people for their timer so an episodic would come in and say I want to

Pay you $1,000 and we'd say $200 if that goes back to rewarding the people that are watching the ads trying the game playing game giving feedback doing the survey I can then take those points me into a marketplace and they can purchase what I like a nemesis it's a very easy to be a pocket right beautiful and that and that's where this gets interesting because if the fundamental asset is about you know it really espousing this kind of reward system for Southeast Asia just as the start surely there are major players that are already sewn to see you know the potential and experiment with

This and I read in a tweet you put out in a publication there's some really big user bases out there and being big partnerships that you're saying to forge to talk us through that Benny from some of the big names and right the way through even in the roadmap for other pipeline partnerships that are coming just give us a real understanding of the real deal the real mainstream potential of this not all this other BS that we hear my projects yeah so the thing is that on the partnership we've just managed with a company for my media and most people never heard of them and you

Probably wouldn't have because they're based in Myanmar I have a living eleven million followers across six channels and they do stuff like tech and sport and fashion and food and they've got a lot of people through Facebook go on follow these people they provide their own content platform and they produce quality stuff it's my engagement some of their videos get 500,000 views so company if you want grab that AAHA while we pay these guys to produce content on their behalf because they know what the local audience makes them very engaged obviously so the hardest part of

Anything that crypto to not try and get people to accept it to utilize it to take it on to download some what it's very very hard to get the adoption second part makes it very hard keys how do we get the users everybody's competing for the same space competing for the same policy if we take an engaged user base and we do a partnership and a 50/50 business with another company who said we've got 11 million followers already engaged they're only engaged and we say we can help you create this platform that allows these people to be rewarded for

Their time and effort after they can come back and provide feedback because we're very from the customer experience back from were very heavily into data analytics and we understand that we can actually find out what people think of these products elephant-like to use them and the good part about it is you go onto YouTube or something yes the wait six or seven seconds please prepare each week and skip it for us this is the platform that would allow people to choose to go in they can watch targeted content appearing just provide feedback earn points that can be redeemed for

Whatever it isn't pay trees in the marketplace as a result of having 11 million followers already it's not hard to get the hardships we've local players and players throughout region to come in and say if you've already got companies like grandpa and companies like in these big brands locally using their platform to market beacons and services this is a very really start because we already have very engaged the intern user base and also they it is easier to get mainstream partnerships so we're not starting from scratch we are running from there's that button Williams but in

This rolls very smoothly into Vietnam also you need to Philippines in areas where these types of models are very searchable right well that's a big deal because you you know the whole space you've lived in the southeast South about Southeast Asian region for some time but given that you know the focus is this incentivization structure now for the inherent value of the token I want to try and understand you know if this moves forward you know and you really have significant adoption because of the real user bases and the real reach of these entities in the

Mainstream if you couple that with the strategy you're taking to reduce essentially that supply to the deflationary approach do you ever worry that you're going to have enough oaken's if you really build out you know you're interested future right question great question well the good thing about the milk processing Komodos technology is i can take a couple of points and turn them into millions of points I can milk the milk into a new supply a new chain so this allows me to be able to do I don't there's no problems with that whatsoever when also because as you were

Talking about the inherent value the the red fox chain would obviously have much more transactions and volumes and then subsequent chains built in that ecosystem so that is very very good for the for the totem poles of breakfast because it's been bit as I said we could take a hundred red fox points and we can actually build we could actually use those to create an entire supply for a company that sits underneath the bar underneath of it right so you're not worried too much about that but what about with regard to liquidity because that not just with red fox lives but

Everyone right now is screaming for more of it because we're in a really tight market were in a really restricted market I had a look on corn market cap just to get a bit understanding of how the action what kind of action is on the chain it seems that it is really tight you know and I wanted to ask you are you concerned at all bene about the brands of exchanges you know because you often talk about the focuses the tech and the focus is the business yeah well I think that most of the projects that have started on any one a spot on the last year or so on and in the beginning

You've got a bit of a choice I don't being fine here I think it sounds like a beginning I serious I series were they may be a lot of us use the retail investors were the ones over taking the money from a lot of is the exchange taking money from projects you've got a choice early beginning you know you can force it the majority of your raise and your parents and your efforts on getting this them in pains orbit now a feasible market makers and then you've got then you've got your obviously lock ups for money that you pay into these exchanges well then you've got penalties if you

Don't get enough volumes through so the thing is that you've really got a choice you either go down that route and try and roll the dice and you the Queen becomes worth enough that you can then take some funds back and then build out what you want to pickled out so that's the whole marketing angle versus the whole I'm going to build but I'm going to make sure that we've got enough exchange these things to be liquid enough but we do I think it's a conscious decision that people have to make it's how much money you're going to come into making this Queen liquid in a

Market where there isn't a huge amount of liquidity and I just want to I just want to jump in there because you've raised a good point about raising the question how much to put in it suggests also a bit of a manufacturing approach or a manufacturing approach to garner support and bolster you know interest in that particular startup so are you concerned at all that there's a bit of an unofficial sort of engineering going on with a lot of these initially with the IAO with the IC o—- whichever it be simply because of the necessity of attention and the value of

Gentian a hundred percent I'm not gonna say openly and mostly my farm tip for iOS for our PR they'll get either public relations that an endo gave you you may secure out there but anyone who thinks that they can rely just on the IO component raised raised enough funds to be profitable and to go ahead that twelve unweighting try and raise three or four hundred thousand most of that moisture goosebumps will be being used for market banking services or to buy capturing points or to live in a lot away there's plenty of different place and obviously works so I think that yeah

I think it concerns no matter from you nothing it's fascinating we're talking this because you didn't you didn't die you literally know from you know experience of having gone through it as a CEO so you're literally saying you know for those who haven't yet done this penny you know in the CEO situation and creating it raised know about talk to beasties make sure that you've got your funding secured before you go down I you know around the IE area as we know for the majority of each changes they have questionable volumes and liquidity

That's a it's a rat race there's 250 when it's chains in Australia but my own it's a mass separation of exchanges a lot of them use api's into other exchanges it's like a API api's entire API was trying to get the quiddity volume and doubling up the thing is that being honestly if the project comes to me now and this is what I wanna do a nine-yard separation when first so I'm at alliant on this dart yeah if you rely on and rely a part of the race you'll you'll fail you have to have done some sort of the private raise and you have to so what about the future Benny you

Know so are there any other alternatives you foresee that really position or really enable and some of these done ups to not struggle you know with the requisites the top-down requisites often imposed by other parties whether they be you know the exchanges or the season what whomever are there more egalitarian or more more more just ways to start in crypto yeah I think honestly speaking and you're not president for it before I mean if you speak treatment in spatial or it's in that society absolutely that's just the way it goes so you can you can smile and pretend everything's

The way it is but when you get to move around for in circles and you go from from advocates right through to right through to every component you would deal with through the cycle of raping mining projects there's a lot of a lot of shadiness and a lot of a lot of there's a lot of on its face and a lot of its you know but it's not a legitimate projects as well because if you're a legitimate project you're trying to do the right thing you'll pop it from people that are investing but it's part of the problem though Benny because in this day and age you know

There's been a propensity in the past with the bull run for things to do very well and often those there's no there's not necessarily improve ability or there's no there's no true tech backing for some of them so has that been a problem because it's possibly put immediated into you know subsequent narrow to 2019 for example we're sure not everyone's looking for the tech I think I think I'm the I euros was kind of like a new way to to dress to to dress up something very old and try and rearrange it and try and reposition it and try and

Sell it something else but ultimately speaking you know there's a lot of good projects out there that struggle because they don't they failed if they fall victim to a lot of what goes on so they need greatly boost Americans will go out there and say I'm taking a beat system and all the rest of it and then you've got different ways you can handle that and you can you can approach that or you can go out and do what we've done and sort of say but she's trying build stuff but people actually want to use and get rid of me coming in and build revenue streams and products that that are

Actually provide value and let's work with legacy or model is can be improved and it tastes are we done within early enough it's still early but it's hailing to provide you some substantial benefits in your current business models now like it'll say well that's that's a bit of a sell out with the all of centralization you want to change the system or the trainer system as much as anybody off within synthesis my whole life and I think it's working and even though I was from its into my side of the the planet and the universe I want to show people everything and I

Want to do that because the smart way to do it the right way into it but you've got a field stuff people want to use and I think that well I'm still having conversations with people I used to work with years ago and I still remain in contact if they say we're not people going to start taking crypto seriously nicely crypto people start taking it seriously right and another thing to do think also in that context are interrupt but this relates to what you saying Benny is that do you think that the whole narrative or that polarization of centralization and

Decentralization is a little overcooked you know in the sense that you know there is their value in this dissent decentralized parties because clearly we're talking about SMEs or we're talking of business we're talking about the uptake in my adoption we're not just talking about people we're talking about businesses so surely there's a valid you know position for them to be exists in centralized bodies that are utilizing new technology for sure and I think it to be honest if we want to get towards adoption it's going to have to be those

Guys bottom first right because no matter how romantic motion sounds is that you're not going to have something completely decentralized technically centralized model come out and start to compete in beat Amazon or whatever / no I think that's just not going to happen right I mean we're going to have to go through we have to be able to go through the whole testing at the types of limiters of demand I mean having 1,300 users on some of these taps on the Burien or whatever is not actually it's not a strategist in these lots of bugs has lots of issues

With lots of things that think they can't take on on the same scale from these are improving legacy business models in the traditional world so we're still a ways away from that we've got to be able to show people were serious about building stuff out actually it does provide elements again with the rental model and ways to build a business out of business aimlessly shamelessly copy and replicate exactly what they as a very successful unicorn company Darla's and the music by a differentiation point and to make it better faster and stronger and if we can

Do that we stand a chance to be able to be taken seriously and we can start moving towards more rapid adoption but we have to start saying we're getting not give in to these shenanigans that go on in the wild wild west and yeah and on that one last point there's a lot of companies that were very successful over the last 40 years to do wordly centralized and I had different departments that function like separate companies that had that didn't have the answers at the mothership and they were very decentralized in its structure and model there is very very very inclusive

Engines between tech and those types of models that have been made very very famous in the traditional markets and world we can come together they can put those two things together and still have very disruptive very decentralized technology that's mass adopted right well given that you are sort of a pro this as essentially that accelerated incubator as a service model that's really important because in that sense it's the bringing the best out of blockchain but in that sense you arguably are agnostic by core fundamental design because what

Underpins you yes is Komodo is utilizing that the technology your experience there but the reality is it's not because it's not just Komodo that can be done you could literally supplant that with another blockchain so as I find out two things from you it was a bit more about the potential or the plan if there is one to integrate other potential chains that may be more salable may have better throughput I don't know but also can you give us a bit of proof about this adoption you know beyond just telling us the plan give us some evidence of it actually

Happening yes sure so I mean first of all in relation to Komodo competitive I've got involved in that because I saw that this was the most polished Indian name I said polished what how many products do they have and how many users do they have and all the rest of it as far as what it can do he's quite mind-blowing as far as all the different functionality that it does have any other criticisms always been normal end-user can't come along and just pick it up in a way they go but we're getting here through developing documents and all the rest of it so it's becoming

Easier you need to be using this a lot of this move towards push button and – mmm are friendly sort of birth way of going about things I get out all the time why don't you go along to a platform inspire user numbers in it and it's a fair question and I wanted to actually because I wanted to know if there was any subjectivity so be injected into your decision to really stick with Komodo oh I'm pretty much on one of those guys that if I work for a particular telco when I was a young pilot in Australia I don't use any other telephone provider after that I mean

Obviously we need to do some foreign companies McCain back Heath but I'm very loyal I'm very much a person who takes a lot of time to decide on which i think is the best type of tech or the best product for the best service unless something fundamentally chambers like speak with that and thing is that I think that Komodo that provides the best opportunities it's got it's got extremely my transactions say it's but it's very interview so I get asked all the time it would be you know the other chains painted eyes come

Across we bit off of money to come across to another chain to build out that same type of model on there we're having for other people to take our model and copy what we do and we wish the best success because the thing is all gonna be a red fox and you're like lots of blue box whatever the hell people want to build it's all about adoption and Komodo it stands for trying to get mass adoption and I believe that the value system and instruction behind that of the reason I think is because throughout all these markets everyone tried to sell out in one way or another

And come over to be very true to we don't charge anything to make it accessible to everybody make easy to for people to adopt so obviously honestly I don't see the rules means you okay well you know it's it's a tough call because obviously you have a background in an interest in Komodo but I'm hearing what you're saying but I do want to ask you this if you start to see empirical proof you know beyond in that Association you have with Komodo whereby it's evidence literally on the blockchain that there are there are more performance ecosystems and and layer one solutions

To really facilitate your incubations strategy would you in fact in that scenario start to consider expanding the potential of your incubation or service model so that you can really start to showcase what the token itself can do as an incentive i structure if it can be you know connect with something more performant more effective more efficient yep I like a lot of these questions you always ask cutting in pretty deep questions and I like that I'll tell you a little less myelin that's what always took breath I only what they only have seven nations

In South East Asian and everyone always said then why don't you go outside there's a mirror at this Europe there's all these places you can go and they said well it was so deep in Asia but we've only scratched the surface if we an untapped potential we can do really really deep and no need for us to adventure outside of Southeast Asia it is enough for us to face one year forever there's enough technology in komodo for us to be able to build out more models and I can do it out in my lifetime that are already able to be successful based

On that technology set I don't need to chase around rooms with lots of gold there's enough on the table right now for me to be able to say I can calibrate the stick to komodo and only do it out on Komodo and I know for a fact that you know you've got a lot of items we work with them a little bit but all those services but acute are Wars or still a lot other change we won't do that we we are categorically loyal to promoted because of the fact that we know that the tech can do whatever you need it makes no sense penny but obviously you know from my position the

Word loyal scares me but let's talk about imminent use the car as an analogy because I think as Aussies this is appropriate and let's say you know we liken the Komodo platform to the Danelaw you know or the bear and engine you know or maybe not that one but one that came pretty soon after let's say you know bitcoins their very first but yeah you know essentially it was one of the very first functional engines it works extremely well it's efficient but what happens in this scenario where you start to see you know other people in the world tweaking that engine building upon

That not necessarily suggesting making it better but are you precluding protect the potential of the tech if you are so beholden to Komodo if you are you know so determined to make it work because it does all the things or is that the other way around where we are over selling you know throughput and finality when things just if they work they were yeah for sure I mean it's a great I mean some good analogy and I think the thing is but um I can't exactly what we're saying and the things we're doing from the red fox

Side we are a red hat so you might have being the you know to being the Linux and if we can actually bring you or ecosystem development and all the rest of it it's good enough for us to be able to major scale companies out on at the moment so ultimately speaking if we're not able to do that adoption we're not able to build self-sufficient companies that sit on top of that technology then ultimately speaking it wouldn't matter prevail we went across we win favor I mean our model shoots that up and tip we know we'll stack up already so the fact is we

If we just switch lawsuits and somewhere else we just be chasing might exist so really interesting you know why looking at so clearly there is this owners onus of responsibility for both parties to do well and it's also a mutually beneficial sort of relationship and you're very reliant on each other's success now let's move across the other part of that question we were talking at the beginning which is the proof now to killya Komodo as that some you know you know very sort of hermetic and intractable connection with your ecosystem that is red fox labs but now

Where's the proof that both of these entities are working properly in mainstream scenarios to evidence more productive outcomes yeah sure so anything is that I mean the long and the short of answer it they could say no I mean no I mean obviously where we're trying to komodo but let's be honest doesn't have a project yet that it has going messed adoption war but at least you're honest about that and though I'm not know ammaji but you can google it means you'd sell them I'm not the toughest innovator in evolution and say smarter a lot of others do a lot of

People do the opposite though Benny that's why it's refreshing just to tell us straight that we're not quite there yet and it's nice and genuine up there and the thing is that the finish that I think and people get realized the significance of it but a signing a partnership with my mania and doing a joint venture with them for a company that already has 11 million followers and a huge engagement place that's the first step towards towards the mass adoption nominee for red fox but also for for komodo as well because these are real big they're actually real people

That are already engaged from going to these for these sites anyway so we can reward them for doing that it's a much easier still in the new space than saying I've got some relatively shoddy product that I've built on the end of some watching technology and I want the we come across some user and it's better than what your character using that it's clearly not and so I'd rather just say the people you're already going somewhere you're already doing something how about getting some some payment or it you know in a way that you're familiar with interaction between system

That flows with what your your on each to write something it's a much easier sell right sorry I mean you know I totally understand it if we use the terminology or that phrase of stack sets we can almost sort of superimpose your model and utilize your token in that conceptual sort of notion of stacking some sort of token of value because rather than to be the stats or rather it be the Bitcoin narrative when we talk about those who are rewarded for making purchases as we see now with 30 episode party agencies and facilities doing that in your instance it's about rewarding

Those participants in your token you know in that you know incubator so it's really the same concept but really building out the potential in Southeast Asia where there is already a strong support committing a strong community so is the location also imperative for the success red fox labs given that you know you're really shown that you've made this partnership and there's more in the pipeline surely so is the geography so relevant right now yeah it's the fastest growing region for not only tech adoption but it's got its got the most room for growth I mean 43 percent of the

Region's the digital economy in India only 25 percent Philippines 21 percent I mean you've got a very disengaged creative people into the digital economies you've got you know you've got uninformed million people that are aged between 25 and 34 in it but just as many coming through in the next age bracket their take there is you've got some countries with the highest rates of Nia Nia Nia per capita in the world emerging middle class structures you've got me and I going from not even having a mobile phone to spray another in

Constant and skipping five stages of the evolution process technology adoption so we are comments in in the right place right we – motive but ultimately speaking I mean going back to price and pointing and value and all the rest that are also one thing for sure instead of this particular point in time there's no guarantee that anything that we do will subject the Queen to increase value or price we know damn well that these markets are quite often controlled by by the people that are moving of the markets as opposed to anything else and

The thing is that the value of these Queens are not tied to what the extra companies are doing more revenue structures of streams and there's a massive misalignment so if you want to be honest he could bring out something that was amazing but the point for us to go beyond whatever whatever he could decide and whatever the markets dictate but obviously we're going to be bringing our best foot forward to try and make sure that the technology and the projects that we do with a massive bottle and wearing it for the for the right reasons and we're going to do

Things the right way and with we're trying special and and as best we can not to bow down to this pressure of getting involved with these bad actors because it's a it's it's a slippery slope and it sure may and it's a huge challenge as well because if you're trying to do something of value you're up against you know a brick wall when it comes to the crypto casino when it comes to you know having to almost work around the collusion that years is literally almost unbearable at some times at times because right now you're combating the narrative of the networks and the

Branding that seems to be almost paramount to the the adoption factor and also the real factor of this being implemented in the real world so what's your view what how would you color the potential of this given that you know you know the whole landscape and from you know good to bad bad actors to good are you confident that you can make it through with the model that you've got despite all of this bit that's happening yeah I think to be honest you need to have one on an athlete on the in the real world side as far as through customers real revenues real product

Real use case and you've got to have a little in the India in the whole trip though Fannie Mae as far as you possibly can because of the fact that you you really have to have a solid look at you space because there's nowhere to hide dead on the track when you don't have revenue streams and you don't have customers you don't have a product that actually works and using demand so if you're building something for the sake of building something and you just want to be like everybody else and and have the million diversion at the same thing out there

And your hope that your marketing or a sexy girl or a ridiculous giveaway or something is going to make your product fly in a long-term and just not work so to be honest I think we would be looking for out condoms beginning people sort of hanging what are you doing we have absolutely era investors we are homeless in making sure that this thing works and it goes like favorite to me it takes us probably sometimes when you do you hear people saying you know you should be doing more of the same stuff that everybody else does because that way would be really fine you know a rocket

To the moon and Lambo and all this crap and I think myself well you could do all that or you could actually just build something else it's variable that works and we get to sleep at night with a good conscience and we know we've done the right things so you can't please everybody and you've got a splendid little time and trying to please the bad actors and you could try and spend the most amount time as you can on with it with the good people and we've got off where luckily we're slowly weeding out bad people now around us and we're doing things the right way and we're aren't

Where we're proud of what we're doing and then that's a real little company with lots of actually followers and users that prepared to do business with us and with if you have a look at the types of companies will be flying to meet you talking to now these are these are real respectable companies well Benny you hit the nail on the head you know you said it yourself you're flying around you're going to meet and greet these companies we actually don't know mate so give us a bit more information on that yes you're so a lot of a lot of the stuff that we go and talk to people

About well a lot of partly at the companies that we bring me to the real world and there are there legitimate and bona fide you can't talk about their partnerships because these people actually have proper structure and process in place and making sign NDA's and companies that actually aren't prepared to try and potentially workers or implement technology or something like that I don't know their competitors to know in this in this young emerging crypto space everybody goes out and says I had a cup of coffee with Warren Buffett's yeah

It's ridiculous so that leaves where people die so people would read spirit I think I've proven a million times over the years that I'm probably too transparent but we talk about the things that we can talk about and we try not to talk about things that we're not allowed to that especially jeopardize relationships but like for example people could have said how come we didn't talk about that my media how come he didn't let us know that it was a partnership coming they don't get creative tonight did you just click fingers and that happened has come

About that we whip their asses off and we do it the right way and we do it behind the scenes we don't talk about it until we're in a situation and think what makes right anybody I want to ask you in that situation because align with what you're saying if we see superficial announcements we've seen that from all the way from academics from you know prominent universities being essentially used by startups you know for branding or prominent figures in the space you know whomever it is often it's a means to inflate price for the short term but in the instance of this strategy you

Know where you're trying to implement real effective sustained growth in your ecosystem do you feel that there's a dearth of this there's not enough of this strategy to make sure that people can trust the real deal and by saying this you know obviously trying to partner with real companies that's also fundamental for trust but how far did they go in speaking about your relationship and your partnership because I've noticed when I through my work is that it doesn't always play out where both sides release the information in the media I'm sure I mean now so you

Can go and check the announcements yesterday they went out from Zacks employment it's coordinated like real professional growing up people would do so we both went out that same time the fees I think you're right I mean there's a lot of you know a wind come over announce that the pellets Amazon and I had it advanced technology part ship everybody went yeah anyone can get an ounce one punch and discuss the website related details we've got a cod ship it kind of take it's going away because an advanced technology Punisher was the first one at that level the dominant

Giving away an editor a rigorous foil order and there was lots of crap and to be gone through but if that company doesn't come out and make an announcement as well a lot of people say opening one and you can so we can go on the website and can see that it's there and it happens but you're right because not enough coordinator from both slides and that does make kind of brown and think yourself it is it's actually really yeah and another partnership in the Osmonds actually mean diddly-squat until such time as you've got customers using the price and you know we're a

Long way away we've gone out announcement together to let me follow up theories and yes these guys have got an engaged audience and yes there really makes money and all the rest of it may not but the thing is there's a long way to go from that implementing the marketplace having a engaged users and using your products and having your services and for every strength and money coming in there's a lot of stuff can happen between those times right when you're doing the accompany you should go to the petrol race lot you need to go out so right now when you're

Playing for there rather than to buy the audience and we need to make sure that we've got marketing money in your life all this map in the real world so I think a lot of them are superficial between comfort for us and I think a lot of people are getting a little bit smarter but I think still with still a huge amount in maturity it's really interesting you say that – because I the cohort for the users consumers and speculators is as you know that twenty to thirty to forty dominantly male you know speculator speculator worldwide now in the context of trading do you think

That that's also potentially part of the risks or the cancer for projects like yourselves you clearly want to be a long term startup and move into a real deal company that flourishes for the future and enable startups or you know mainstream companies to capitalize on the benefits of what chain you know is it concerning that the trading itself sort of suggests more of that transient and speculative you know position where people are looking more at how they can capitalize on something and I ask you that in the context of also not taking the text seriously where you know if

It'll like some dogecoin for example they don't care if there's enough trade volume that there's enough people you know on board with a narrative that comes through they'll trade that for a you know a better position yeah I think like to be honest and I think and there's a belief in some people but I just I baby traders English bias and people come from traditional trading backgrounds and all the rest of it it's extremely different trading in this space because of the fact that so low liquidity in there's low market caps on a lot of

These these point fluctuations can be massively just small and dollars one way or another I think to be honest it's it's there's not a lot of real trading going on and I see some of these trading experts post their charts and Marisa but they've got the fundamentals down there ta they unpacked that the thing is that these market moves and the manipulation on ships well outside of the well outside of people's ability to be able to predict the market movements I think they're very well said I mean the fact that you know this can happen overnight – there can be really unusual anomalous

Behavior that can only be explained by manipulation sometimes so how on earth can people make the claim that these kinds of bollards volatile news are predictable I think any one day trading it in women that says that they can continually make money is lying through their teeth I mean anyone is traded for more than a year or two in traditional markets would know that that's impossible so yeah you might get to get it or wing here and there but as they say in traditional market security portfolios like a payara slope and we touch it

Small or it gets you need to just try and find a couple of companies that you feel or projects you think you're going to be successful on new endeavors to be legitimately well might win we could talk for hours on the train and let's pull it back to red fox labs now see the pipeline there's so much happening beyond Myanmar give us a bit of them down and a recap on you know to end the interview and we're going the roadmap the trajectory the plan forwards so we can really see that you know you aren't just talking but you really tell how this is all going to unfold most

Likely into the real world yeah sure I think until the projects if I keep up runs on the board I think um everything that is said by them can be taken with a grain of salt and a lot of projects are putting tensions peconics of people for whatever reason I think for us to be honest we would flip a lot of our time and effort and energy now into be into this this new partnership and joint venture with because it has a real audience and it really engaged leads and one thing the bear markets taught us if that soil project is done when I say us I mean everyone is that

Revenue streams are extremely important we need to have revenue coming in so that you can survive most people are relying on we're trying to live over the long island to own it or else that they can sell their stashes and then continue to work for months so I think to be honest you can say how you're gonna prove any of this is real or any of this is true or they're doing any of this I think the most important thing is this is I think for us it is a is a big week getting is partnership for us it's a huge win and some big win for them as well I think the Komodo is a tip so if

You want to try and join dots and put the clues together kimono is take proven to work and it would do a lot more than what we're trying to do with it in this type of partnership this companies really can go on research and then see the Priory it just has to be a couple of das doing you know just building that oral and marketplace which is not brain which is not brain surgery house accessibility that is completely dependent on on the way we roll that out but there's not too much imagination that has to be used to join the two dots but that together now if you would ever

Want to say okay what about future projects that are more ambitious where you're having fun with an audience from scratch I would say there we've made it fairly clear that we have a few projects on the on the board with that we really want to build out next but this progress right now so I would say anything that we're talking about in the future let us prove ourselves by doing this one first and show that we've we're able to tie that all together and we people's trust and respect and then then we're able to really sort of port and have people listen what I try and

Say back next I don't know that might sound like a very unorthodox arts because people are going to coming back to in saying then we're going to take over this world and in this world and in this world it's all well good to be ambitious but there's a fine line between ambition delusion right and also the you know you being transparently you're trying to produce any answer based on realism you know based on the reality that you just don't know exactly what's going to play out but right now what you're saying is you're employing a head down by my strategy doing the work

Proving that the value is in these pilot starter projects these pilot partnerships and alliances feel forging and you're literally signing so on that note there's obviously NDA's lined up you're not telling us everything that's coming forward since our announcement but clearly what I really have learned today talking to you to recap is that you have a model where you're utilizing you know the experience that you have the role you've had before in comodo and also your your respect for the technology to link with an incubator program then to move that

Into an actionable plan integrating with mainstream businesses and pull them all together to really prove that adoption can be possible that's the quest that's you you're right now but can you do it that's what we really want to see we want to say that of all quality startups because if you don't then what the bloody hell are we all here for my I'm telling you if you can't if we've got an audience besides and we've got that giant input together realistically there's not many factors that could cause it to fail especially when it's in the track record that we do

Her so ultimately speaking funding is always the thing that you need to be able to roll and give these things oxygen and they complete huge companies need continual oxygen coming in market and to attract new audience new years of you having having 11 million people is it's obviously a very clear start but down the track we're going to have to be going through normal equity raises like a Series A and Serie B and the traditional path signal area and rapidly spend Philip India and all the rest of it so why not go means even if we get it launched or not we and we

Do really well in there but it's kind of like shooting fish in a barrel as we already have the audience the real test comes in the acid test comes when you're going to market that we don't have the audience and we're relying on the reputation from another market across so this is going to be we have to prove ourselves 10 times over and the proof of the pudding for our ability to be able to do that we'll go through immediately now that we've got a strategy in place and all the risk beacons were a raised model for equity side for the new venturing tribe so we can actually do

That in forever but there will be no unless you know I you know you claim on the market we're doing things the right way so we hope we hope that translate and we people identify and see that I think that my transparency might actually fry a few people awful scary it's going it's going to Benny that's the reality we sure hope that play out every single time but we need to really clarify this right now is then whether or not you move into an equity position or not the reality is that the the token itself was never designed to be an equity you know token in it and I'm not

Designed to be that security so the point to make here is can be synergize can they work in concert with each other support each other despite you're moving into an equity position yeah we're Square smarten up know that we aren't we don't want to reinvent the wheel and create as I said 10 different coins and all the rest of it that a trailer ball that has to go through getting their own following and listing and I want to go through this rigmarole all the time so the thing is that we want to leverage the main chain of our thoughts of red fox as much as we can and have as much

Transaction volume coming through that and the demands it all for the actual reference point and knowing that it's actually being smaller and smaller in quality and suppliers time goes on burning for for for the operation in new chain I think it let's just say that though on those assurances that what will happen in the future and how that how it will be regarded but it couldn't possibly with what we've got working in a buck in a way that keeps it a better chance right well one of the things that's challenging it is volume

In itself you already mentioned it but we need to just you know address this as a criticism to crypto and more generally is that the the current scenario we face now is very very concerning unlimited volume and also very limited outward our outside investment coming in flood that the inflow of support are you concerned at all right now Benny about the realities we're facing I mean I can open to choices I can either I believe make it look like the way he's more popular than we are otherwise all right I'm just trying to continually catch the bullets and defend but this is what a project

Really looks like when they come yeah and then the second part once we're actually going out and trying to do the race on the equity side for the new ventures that we build through through traditional means and target and much more mainstream feces or investors that want to get into what chamber mitigated risk as opposed to trying to chase these these things around a predominant focus on the Queen side of things because they play the same game and a lot of it I think a lot of those they see the assignment they're in a much better position than they

Actually are and they're not investing them and I know a lot of money being honest and that doesn't go for being a hundred percent honest with moving away from that and trying to go into the rule to the conventional model cash but and what do you say Ben into those with the pitchforks out literally you know in the daggers when they're saying well we're not invited to the be equity show we're not invited to those privilege you know positions and seats when you know they've been there from the beginning as supporters of the ecosystem as someone as those who've also supported the

Utility model itself do you think that there's you know going to be some no concerns raised about that no no no be concerned we have some we have some great ways ideas that we can actually make sure that we always want to make sure that we are so inclusive facility is an on your you know on your day she gets in and out of there and and Komodo if you actually want to know the asks to what potentially possible Komodos bring you releases and through the entire and all the rest of the kitchens very strong indicators to power weekly potentially

Utilize our college to look after an area early investors we don't we that we can't start without them so we're not people that just wouldn't wear anything each well I'm hearing some a hint thing there that you can't tell me but essentially you your philosophy is and you your your ethos is to look after those that really gave you the best shot from the beginning make sure the hang on for volume a hundred percent and we do want the people that over the long term Emily it's obviously good to get trading traders in to try and quit to do the quick flicks and all the rest of it I

Understand that's our trading mouth ultimately speaking we're we're much more interested in the people that are going to be with us for the long term who want to come in and contribute and provide some value absolutely mate well I couldn't have said that last part better so thank you very much been Fairbank you are the CEO of red fox lads you have all that experience behind you you know as an important part of the Komodo ecosystem as well as the GM there but I really do wish you the very best and the reason is because the amount of transparency new presented this evening

Has been really substantial it's been you know refreshing because we don't get to talk like this very often with many people you're telling us exactly how it is the real test now is a challenge of adoption especially in this crypto climate it's very convoluted it's very complex very you know challenging because we don't exactly see clear waters any time soon but you're giving it a crack way and I wish you all the very best as you start to really prove to us that it is possible it's more than plausible but it's doable thank you my really

Appreciate your welcome mate good luck

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