My First Year Trading Full-Time · Josh Evans

by birtanpublished on August 12, 2020

Markets speculation and risk this is the chaplet traders podcast hosted by Erin Fifield hi folks what's good welcome to episode 187 of chat with traders so I had this idea recently that it might be an interesting exercise to have a few less

Experienced traders on the show on Twitter I wrote I'd like to chat with someone who one has just completed their first year of full-time trading to started with a minimum of twenty thousand dollars three is or isn't

Profitable not important as long as he or she is taking deliberate action to improve from this tweet I received an overwhelming number of dams for consideration and after filtering through them all there were several

People who really stood out and who I will be speaking with so there's going to be several episodes in the near future with guests who fit this general description the first cab off the rank though is Joshua Evans my guest for this

Episode he's 30-something years of age living in Melbourne Australia and he's actively trading ASX equities this conversation with Josh wise his progression from newbie

Investor to intraday trader including his motivation and preparation for going full time a few specific things which have helped Josh to get his equity curve pointing in the right direction which you can take a look at for yourself in

The show notes at chat with traders comm / 1 8 7 + deliberate processes josh has implemented for improvement one piece of advice he received that made a big difference and that's not all I think I made a great decision to bring

Josh on for this episode he was a fantastic guest and I am sure you will agree and I'm also sure he'll be back at some point – and now Showtime folks 187 Josh Evans here we go goto beginning you have this huge loss

First day back you just like that really rad was your confidence right there for me anyway man let's get into things I'd like to ask you straight away like what were you doing prior to trade him what were you doing before you got into this

Yeah sure so I was a radiographer for 11 years so yeah working in hospitals and stuff yeah doing basically I sort of specialized in CT but went through starting in x-ray all that sort of stuff hospitals and then

Ended up in the private practice and yeah as a chief chief radio group in the air which was kind of good cause added like more there was still clinical but and I'd been role as well so I did have my laptop in the corner watching the

Market as well okay I hope my employers at so how did their interest in trade and actually come about yeah so I I actually when I lived overseas for a few years doing radiography and so I was in the UK and over there

You just get much more sort of responsibility within the role and so coming back to Australia I you know I was like ah you know I came back and and then I sort of felt like I'd taken a backwards step really because we

Couldn't do half the things that you know we were doing over in the UK and I think that's all because of the NHS is so understaffed so at where is over here we've got a decent workforce within our health system so yeah like I just felt I

Wasn't doing as much as I used to and I actually started looking into I wanted to sort of keep moving up in the world I guess and keep challenging myself so I wanted to actually do medicine you know get into the study medicine just to sort

Of keep working in health I thought oh well that's probably the next step and cut a long story short basically I did the gam satin which is the entry exam and there's a few other sort of variables you have to get through but I

Did that and anyway I didn't end up getting in all because my GPA from uni so that kind of it hit a crossroads really I was like huh you know I want to sort of move on from radiography and not sort of cap he

Doesn't all come down to money but you know radiography is pretty capped I guess and and then so I started looking at other other ways to sort of get a better paying job I guess and that's when I started looking yeah into the

Market okay yeah that totally makes sense and what was your what was your first introduction if you will once he did start looking at the market like where did your experience begin there yeah so I wouldn't recommend this but I

Had look I had a bit of money comes through from inheritance and you know obviously I saw okay this is a good start you know I might as well make a positive out of negative so that's when I had money to sort of put into the

Market I didn't start big or anything like that but you know the I got a mate oh you got some money how about you chuck chuck it into this this gold stock this gold spec you know it's gonna go to a dollar it's

Gonna do this all that sort of stuff and you know my eyes lit up thinking ah this is too good to be true and of course it was but luckily I got away unscathed it knows is I didn't have a heap of money like it wasn't a big position whatsoever

But I think that was the first introduction for me and I really didn't like the feeling of not knowing why the stock was moving up and down and so you hear from that little introduction that's where sort of my passion for just

Learning as much as I could about the market that's where that all came into play okay see it took bit of a risk on a one particular gold stock yeah just so one so I've no real idea about you know

Spreading your risk diversifying a portfolio things like that but I mean from that experience it did lead me into looking at a sort of plate of it safer but yeah as I said that first first little dabble I guess you if you will

Yeah was what sort of started it all for me okay tell me about it was around 2015 that you started investing in or getting a bit more active with the in versity yeah well I was probably quite lucky I timed it well you know we had

That sort of around 2015-16 we had that sort of mining spec run I guess if and especially in lithium lithium stocks over here on the ASX so I again I probably was quite lucky that you know I had where those active there was a lot

Of a lot happening in that sort of end of the market you know so it didn't sort of bore me out of it you know I've seen of late they're just those sort of stocks and I used to term well I was investing back then yeah they've been

Beat down and Jesus just bought you out so yeah that's when I really got started and because there was a lot happening accelerate your learning curve somewhat because you're not just sitting there each day twiddling your thumbs having a

Look and you know things were moving 510 percent a day and they'd pull back a bit and yeah so and as I said I just didn't like not understanding why these were moving so I just started devouring books online courses some good some bad

And yeah that's that's probably the yeah the best year for me to study but if I look back and have a think about it I was quite lucky in that aspect yeah she say you were quite lucky but what what gave you the idea to actually put your

Money into these lithium companies I did do a lot of research and I say that with a grain of salt but you know we've especially over here and on the arm on the ASX says everyone's heard of the forum type website hot copper and so

That's that's kind of what there was some people in there with some really good knowledge and there was a lot of people who just you know which is obviously shilling this talk yeah that's kind of where I sort of learned how to

Look into researching whether you know certain companies were buying mines that had been mined before it's like oh sorry you know tenements have been mined before or had been drilled before even back when you know lithium wasn't the

Hot stock so there was that's when I started to realize okay you can kind of get a little bit of a head start here by you know looking at seeing if you can find any old drilling drilling reports or things like that and you know got

Really lucky with one stock av said I got in quite early there and the reason I was pretty confident it wasn't actually my real research it was it was somebody else on that forum who'd just done a you know so much research had

Found and purchased all these old articles on I think when the Belgians were mining this this this this tenement was in the Congo so there was a lot of talk like eyes never gonna mind things like that but it didn't worry me because

I'd seen that sort of first lithium Bull Run where it thinks we're just going crazy anything that drilled well you know they were they were bagging left right and centre so I just thought he fucking gets set you know maybe I can

Make it decent bit of money on this and yeah that's that's probably I mean it is you're right there was some research into it but at the same time it's all about timing isn't it not sort of being alas from the Train yeah you said that

Right yeah can you share just rough numbers about how much you made during this period yeah sure I did into the IV's their trade I put in about I think once I've built my position and I built it around between 1 1 cent and

2.4 cents and I ended up taking I had about $25,000 position I ended up taking it out at 21.5 cents but that was on the way back down and I think it reached a high of 38 8 cents I was around a million shares so it's pretty easy it

Was a million shares at 38 cents was 380 grand and but to me that was what you know that was like alright I'm doing pretty well here but I mean at the same time that that really got blown out of the water that stock and you know it's

Trading down at four or five cents at the moment so I was lucky I took it out at the top so I end up pulling out about two hundred and fifteen thousand dollars out out of 25 as an oil position so in a great start and it it did give me

Money that that to put aside that I can you know really give intraday trading ago because that's where I really wanted to sort ahead I didn't really like the fact that the overnight risk like one day goes up 10% next day it goes down 15

The next day goes up 12 yeah it was it was hard to sleep at night I'm not gonna lie yeah well let's get into that tell me about the motivator to go full-time yeah so probably yeah the motivator was I wanted to get into intraday trading

Because I think that just suits my personality better you know I don't like sitting there waiting I'm not the most patient person so I'd started that's what you know when I came across chat with traders actually

And you know I'd started listening to close the guys who do intraday trading and I really thought yeah that you know that suits me to a tee you know it's right up my alley so I started thinking well you can't intraday trade just by

Sitting there for one hour a day I mean you can you can trade the open I guess but I don't know to me the way the market unfolds the rest a day is almost like a bit of a blueprint as to how it's going to maybe act the next day

Especially in some stocks you know levels things like that so I started to realize that I needed to sort of I needed to put time into it and yeah what I did was I spoke to my employers nice and I was I was working pretty hard at

This the place I was at and you know it was a busy clinic and I said look like I really want to go part-time and have one day off a week and they knew I was into trading and I said I was just to trade I said well yeah it is but you know a

Thing could be quite good for me I felt like I was getting burnt out as well you know I said that and anyway they agreed that I could have one day off a week and that's where it sort of started to head in towards that full full-time that was

The plan to go full-time but you know obviously I was gonna Chuck all the eggs in the one basket straight away I wanted to get a feel for it get the set up and you know set all my you know try all the different software things like

See what-what fit me best I guess seems like you took a pretty smart approach to this like you will capitalized you had a decent sum of money behind you like you weren't living week to week and you kept your job you just dropped down your

Hours so that you could have some time to watch the market intraday even if it was just one day a week to begin with yeah that's it I think that's probably what's yeah it's helped me I did have that that

Little foundation even though when it did come to going full-time I realized well I don't I know nothing but and that when I look back I'm like okay I did know something and I had that foundation there which was a little step up when I

Did go to full time and it wasn't as overwhelming I guess yeah now I'm not sure where this fits into the timeline exactly but I that this may have also contributed in some way or being bit of a motivator you were diagnosed with some

Form of cancer right yeah that's correct so it's funny what you know I worked in in radiography and you know doing scans CT scans every day that sort of diagnosed people with cancer and you know I had these lumps in my neck and

You know been been a typical guy I was like ah now they'll go away and anyway probably buried my head in the sand for probably three months and uh you know they just weren't going away and I got a few of the girls sort of from working in

Ultrasound say oh can you have a bit of a look here and they yeah they work hard Josh go see a doctor I'm like ah ah you don't get sick on the one who does the scans but anyhow they finally convinced me to go see a doctor and yeah thank God

They did yeah sorry I had a biopsy you know I didn't lose a lick of sleep whatsoever I I thought they'll just give me the royal treatment just because of you know I worked in the industry and anyway six days later it came back yeah

And I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma so what exactly is that basically that's it's yeah so it's like a like a cancer I guess if you will up there of the lymph nodes so yes I had the

Posterior cervical chain so basically the back left side of my neck I had probably about 15 like decent lumps you know sort of small marble-sized felt like you know it did feel like marbles sort of embedded under my skin in the

Muscle type thing and so basically what it does is it I didn't feel feel sick or anything like that but you know what it does it start it's quite it's quite quick so it's a spread so that's why you want to get on to a quick but that's

Insane that's another reason why I react so well treatment luckily I got it at stage one it hadn't spread anywhere so it's just in that lymph node area I said before and yeah so went into the chemotherapy about so I was all pretty

Quick so within two weeks I was I was doing chemo and yeah that's that's what made me see I thought you know been while cert III at the time I was pretty fit and I thought yeah you know I'll be fine but now that that really smoked me

The heebie for six that's crazy man what cause it like is there anything they know of or is it just a pretty random it is it is a little random so they say I don't to scare people but so if you've had the epstein-barr virus or what

What's more commonly known as glandular fever you have a higher chance of getting it you doesn't mean you will whatsoever it just that's one of the things that they found that um you know people who have had glandular fever in

The past a little more susceptible to get it doesn't mean you will doesn't mean it's a much more increased chance but there's some sort of link there I didn't know I'd had it it turns out that I had had it in the past because when

They did the biopsy they could tell that yeah I had had this epstein-barr virus and when I think back I'm pretty sure I know exactly when it was is when I was living in Portugal I mean ha still working there so you know many late

Nights so I just thought that's what it was that's well so tired but that's probably what it was was the epstein-barr virus full-on and how long did the chemo treatment take so I was pretty lucky

With that chemo I had it's a pretty it's a decent dose it's called a b VD that's the the drugs well that's just yeah the acronym they call the drugs and it's a decent decent whack and I'm a decent sized guy I was about 100 kilos at the

Time so you know I they work out your dose by weight so anyway I got a fair bit and it was every two weeks I'd have chemo and that was over a period of two months so it wasn't it definitely wasn't as bad as some people

You know like when I was in hospital for a bit I got admitted for a while and yeah there was this guy next to me and you know he he was on his sort of nine ninth month of chemo so I was really lucky in that aspect you know as I said

It did made me pretty crook and you know lost the hair and everything like that but yeah as far as it goes it could have been far far worse yeah yeah well so you're all good now I'm good yeah so coming up in March fingers crossed we'll

Be two years in remission so yeah fingers crossed for that but I feel really good and you know all my checkups have been great and yes in that's it though just I've got a pretty positive outlook on it it's one of those things

Where as you said before we get I mean getting around to this long well now segue I guess but yeah indeed it made me realize we don't know as grim as it sounds we don't know if we're gonna be here next week so you have to and it I

Guess it gave me a little fast-forwards to sort of sell myself well you know mate just if you want to keep doing one day trading a week for another two three years and so you can you know build up more money or something like that you

You might not be here and so yeah I really did give me that sort of motivation to be like alright I do have enough money put aside like I always have to sort of make so I won't be able to live the same lifestyle I've been

Living but you know that's sacrifice isn't it and if you want to do something like this you can't expect that you're going to leave exactly the same lifestyle from the get-go so I thought yeah why not

Times now let's do it and yes that's that's what I did so how long have you been trading full-time for as of today as of today I've been probably about now January so about 1516 months full-time and I've had you know

Little little probably had a month off in that in that period there so yeah just a bit over here here and I might haven't looked back to tell you truth I absolutely love it well it's good to hear that's really good so obviously we

Highlighted a couple things just before that you will capitalized you had decent funds behind you and to begin with you started to cut down on your hours at work when you did take the the plunge to go 100% full time trading whether

Anything was there anything else which you did to prepare Mikey you kind of hinted there that you made some slight adjustments to you know your lifestyle your lifestyle I don't imagine they were huge dramatic changes but was

There anything else which you did do in order to prepare for this this change well look I had it I was living with a girlfriend at the time so I was lucky in that aspect to that I had heard a sort of not reliant I own but support I guess

And so I wasn't to be good when you have to think about it especially if you work a social job basically if you're gonna go start trading full-time from home you're not gonna see many people and that can be a big factor for some people

You know they they are you know I'm a pretty social guy so the others I had I had her to come home every day which was great but you're probably a little tiny adjustments that people don't really think I was you know I made sure that I

Was I had I was going to the gym all the time gym classes so I could see see people and just sort of have that day-to-day interaction yeah little little things like that but yeah there wasn't it wasn't a heap of like well

Probably another thing it's not really on that same vein but preparing to go full time was getting turning the black I was I had a sort of little home office but I was like nope I'm gonna do this properly I want more screens and you

Know I had to get better dear skin because I sitting in this chair all the time you know went out and sort of really sort of turned it into a proper home office and I think that's kind of important because

It's you know you might be a month in sorting like ah you know and you start sort of spending time googling you better chairs better there's better screens things like that you just want to sort of hit the ground running cuz

That's you know it's I don't know maybe it's like when you're a kid you just learn so much in these first few weeks of it's such a you know sensation that you're sort of thrust into you know you try and just absorb as much and you

Don't wanna be too distracted I guess yeah I think that's it that's a really good point actually I mean for me personally I've never kind of thought twice about spending money on that sort of thing because I spend so

Much time in front of the computer it's like when I started the podcast I just went out and bought like the best equipment I could all those little things they they really matter you know if you're trying to you know you're

Struggling away on a little laptop or something you're not gonna get great results you know you want to be kind of put yourself in the best position to succeed I think yeah no doubt yeah that's that was kind of my reasoning as

Well I was like you know as I said I had that little bit of money put aside that capital anyway so I didn't dig too deep into it but I did buy stuff that was you know decent screens you know and you want to have a good set especially if

You start running you know more screens you need to make sure that your computer can handle it things like that yeah yeah so I think you do have to sort of you have to get into that one set where you don't go crazy but you're gonna have to

Spend money to make money if that makes sense it does yeah you need to invest in yourself yeah let me ask you what misconceptions did you have or even if they weren't misconceptions maybe unexpected challenges or realizations

That you came to once you did begin to trade full-time I'm pretty confident to hire like you know not overconfident at the same time I felt like I'd prepared myself quite well to to step into full time trading and I didn't expect to sort

Of you know be making money day one even you know the three four months in but I probably thought you know by six months I'd I'd have a decent handle on it and that just wasn't the case I think you know you've got you

Sort of have to realize that the market changes every day and it is sort of morphs from you know what it was two months ago it's completely different to what it may be today you might be sort of in these Cherney

Ranges or you know you might be in a strong sort of small little bull run or you know bear run type things like that so that was probably the one of the things that I didn't really think about too much like you know we all read the

Books and stuff yeah marketing conditions isn't that but I don't know maybe in my head I was thinking I'll you know setups will still work in this set ups will work in that but you know you start making progress in in a typical

Market condition for example and then as I said two three months later it's just not working in and I didn't really think that would happen so I like the market sort of changes so quick so that was one of the big sort of challenges just when

You sort of feel like you're making progress next minute the market changes and nothing you're doing is working so he kind of it almost feels like you're back to square one a little bit how much money did you put in your actual trading

Account to to get started so I started I had had fifty 50k to start with but with with my broker you know I I trade on a leveraged account so I didn't really need that and you know speaking to a few guys and you know he'd been trading for

Quite a while and they just said to me look if you don't need it in there don't don't have it so I pulled it back to 20 and that was that was good you know I never sort of because I wasn't going massive to start it in any case and you

Know in some some stocks you can get five percent margin so you can still put on decent size but yeah that's probably another thing that I didn't really think about but you know I had I have a mortgage on an apartment that I rent out

And you know so I have an offset account and it was it's embarrassing to say this but yeah I didn't need that 50 grand in the you know that extra 30 grand in the trading account so it was so much better

Off just sitting him off said he can't I'm taking me the interest away so but 20k was on a leveraged account I think that was definitely more than enough when I started I probably could have even gone as low as 10 yeah I mean the

Way things work and Australia trading direct market access CFDs you can get pretty substantial wind power with twenty thousand dollars so especially like and your first couple months trading

Even if you've got the money it's probably not wise to be trading you know 50 grand leveraged up you know you can do enough damage with 20 20 K yeah 100% and that's the other thing as well I mean you're kind of eliminating sort of

An external risk there as well if something was to go wrong with the broker you know which has happened in the past yeah you know we've all those stories like horror stories like that that you know at least all your money

Was in that account so if you don't need it there's no real reason to have it so how much did you what's the most you've you've drawn down on the account like you said you know this first few months weren't you weren't going up and piano

How much did you come down yeah I ended up coming down to I was pretty good to start with I'm I wasn't going too big or anything like that but then as I started to increase my size I started to get um yeah I wasn't overconfident but I wanted

To get comfortable being uncomfortable if that makes sense and I probably took that a little bit too far and so I probably drew down about twelve twelve thousand souls down to around eight thousand and that was

When I started you you start to realize why I am trying to increase my size here but he gets in here you know you don't trade properly you if you go too big to too soon you're not trading properly you're not trading your plan is you're

Watching your P&L every tick and you're and you know you're not getting comfortable becoming uncomfortably just becoming way too uncomfortable so that was when probably that period where I took that the big drawdown and yeah I

Was again probably lucky I only had the 20k in there cuz who knows maybe I would have even been sizing up bigger which again is I probably wouldn't have but you just never know when you get into sort of that mindset when you're

Spiraling a little bit yeah might just take one day we're not thinking clearly and just get a little bit too aggressive when you shouldn't be yeah when you drew your account down to around about $8,000

Was there ever a point where you started to doubt your ability to be able to do this definitely yeah I started to think you get all these negative thoughts like are you no you idiot what have you done

What's your mother gonna think that I did I started to sort of doubt my ability and I thought you know I started thinking you know is it lark was it luck and then I and I also was struggling as well because that when I was down at

Eight okay I couldn't sighs like I used to so even and what I was doing on I was probably I was probably over trading a little bit as well so I had my account was sort of maxed out across you know five six different

Trades or set ups type thing and all of a sudden that you know a really good set up an a-plus said it would come through I had no money to left over to Chuck into that trade and so you know pulling out of these other trades I mean and it

Was just it was a vicious cycle really it's it's not a good place to be and and then obviously that really started to yeah way on bond what I thought my ability was and thought my you've you've bitten off money hit you this isn't

Something that gets spoken about very often and I actually had a really good conversation on the subject in an episode which was hoping to put out in December but unfortunately wasn't able to release it I tweeted about it at the

Time one of the things which was spoken about during that episode was having this point where you give up did you have a point about was sort of a an idea in your mind about when you may give up if this wasn't like did you

Have a cut-off point yeah I had sort of I you know it's funny you start to bargain with yourself when you get into a sort of these positions you know like you're like ah you know if you it's stupid you sort of you are it's you look

Back and even saying it is impact sinkers you think if I was this in this conversation but it was this guy what's he doing but yeah you do make these buggers with stuff like are you know if you can just you know stick it out if

You don't lose any money if you don't go down to 6 grand or whatever you know you could to go you're good to go and I'll add a bit more to the account so you can start the sizing up again but and then also as well once I started to sort of

Get into that state of despair well not despair but like yeah doubting myself like you're saying before I I had sort of said to myself alright if this 20 grand goes I'll give you oh I'll put another 20 in but that's it if I wasn't

Making progress in if I was gonna just get you know blow up another 20 grand I did have to sort of really look myself in the mirror and say mate it's just not working you know you're gonna have to have to give it up because otherwise it

Would just if I'm not making progress when I should be then you know I think that was what they say that's a definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result

And I often sort of bring myself back to that saying I put in my trading as well I'm like what are you doing mate you you're doing what you did before you and you're expecting it to work for this time and occasionally you will get that

Lock but that's not you don't to be riding luck in your trading career so but yeah I think I had that sort of probably yeah that if I'd lost that 40 grand well I keep I give myself an extra 20 and then lost that I would have

Really been like alright mate back to centre link and that's not hitting the job ads but now thankfully it didn't get to that but it's funny you say that because I'm there's another I kind of have

Checkpoints for myself because you know I'm still sort of don't get me wrong I'm still learning I learn everyday and I'm not I know I'm not invincible in the market and so I do have checkpoints that I you know sort of give myself and one

Was just you know after Christmas New Year period I wanted to look at you know sort of my results and my equity curve and make sure it was pointing in the right direction because that had been over a year by then you know it's just a

Couple of weeks ago and yeah I thought you know if I'm not up to sort of 1516 months starting to point that equity curve up maybe I've got to have a real hard look at myself and and just think you know I'm not cutting the mustard

Here and anyway I've got to the point and I've yep I passed that checkpoint and and so I've kind of given like in my yearly review I'll do six monthly check points now just make sure I'm heading in the right direction make sure I've got

Enough money to to last the next six months things like that and I and that's that's kind of it's it's funny you bring that up I think that's probably especially for look I don't know I'm not I'm no expert but maybe the first

Definitely a few years you can't sort of get ahead of yourself even when you are having good periods I think you still potentially need to sort of give yourself that that check and make sure you are on the right path and you're not

Just you know just being blase about what your results are like and whether or not you're moving forward yeah I think it's definitely something which needs to be given some consideration it needs to be factored in a little bit

Obviously it's one of those things which you just don't really want to think about as a as a newer trader you're obviously come into this very optimistic but you know there is a there's a real opportunity cost to the time that you

Invest it and trying to learn how to trade and and find you know a way to extract some P&L from the market yeah 100% and I think another thing as well is the reason why you sort of you don't think about is you know you don't want

To feel like a value like a lot of your family and new friends know you've taken this big step and not everyone makes it in the market and I mean taking steps a brave thing to do especially if you've given yourself

Every chance you know to make it but even if you died it's it's not armed as long as you weren't you know stupid just gambling your money away on the market but I think that's probably one of the harder things you it's your pride as

Well you're so you don't want to think about not you know this give up point because you're like ah that's a it's in your own mind you think it's a failure yeah yeah you're dead on and I mean I've a huge amount of respect and admiration

For anybody who's taken the step to throw everything into this and try and learn how to trade obviously responsibly yeah yeah that's it like you know yeah you have to be that's think you have to be responsible for your own actions as

Well you can't blame the market are so I'm going on to my stop whatever like mate you just okay just you'll get you know you will gets the vision and stuff but if you keep your wrist tight you can you don't you know just sort of throwing

Everything away yeah just be responsible for you your own actions really too right so how have you been trading and has there been like obviously your accounts bounced from that $8,000 point did you change what you were doing in

Any way like was there a significant change or did you just tighten up some things and just I haven't asked you this question yet but like just for anyone who's listening just give a real brief conner overview to your style and

Approach to trading yeah no doubt so pretty much what I do is and you know you've probably heard a few people say it in your interviews before on the ASX especially intraday trading we don't get these huge swings and moves throughout

The day so my style is its discretionary but I do try and you know sort of scalp with size you know sort of in the lower denomination stocks where you're not paying massive brokerage because we have different brokerage structure to how

It's trading the states and overseas but yeah so basically I'm looking at the loaded arm stocks you know small Meade mid cap probably meet cap a more comfortable I'm still not brain with the small cap because they can have some

Some pretty big swings yeah basically what I try and do is I try and you know trade stocks that fit that bill but also they have a catalyst Sunni there in our in place stock and then you know so they're gonna they're

Gonna have movement throughout the day and yeah basically I try and use well I try and read the order flow and jump in front of the big money when I can and then you know jump in have it spiked up or spiked down whichever direction I'm

Going and then yeah with a little bit of size myself and then you know scalping around throughout the day really scalping like a madman so when you talk about scalping how many trades just rough numbers here and what you take on

Any given day they're probably not massive compared to what you know you'd read up about scalping but I don't sort of hold for you know like I wouldn't even hold some stocks for more than an hour but like I'll probably trade on a

Good day like when I'm not over trading I'll do maybe eight trades or you know I might jump in and out of a stock a few times so trading around probably five six stocks maybe trade him a couple times each way if I've got a good feel

For the stock and when I say scalping I'm trying to let's say for example a stock you know broke through the one dollar mark the one dollar level and then you get that instance sort of spike up to a dollar three I you know if if

There's no follow-through and there's you know someone's put someone's jumped on the beard and it just doesn't feel that it's gonna be much follow-through I'm happy to take that so you know this is sort of year three people all six

Peeps I guess because we trade paths once there but you with our commission structure as well scalping like that wouldn't work on a stock say you know seventy dollars stock because you're just going to tear up your account with

Commission's there so you they say for example I've seen on some of the brokers here it's it's let's say for example introduction rate is ten ten basis points so a round trade is gonna cost you 20 basis points so if you took one

Percent of a move in a seventy dollar stock so let's say you've bought it right at seventy it went up to $70 seventeen you sold us one percent move or what's that one-fifth of your profit is going to get taken in commission

There so and then if you were if you were just scalping that you have to get point two of a percent just to break even just for your Commission so yeah if you would have taken 15 15 points so seven fifteen sorry $70 15 for

Example you don't just be breaking it even so you do need that bigger move in those larger stocks just make it worthwhile with your Commission if that makes sense yeah I mean I will just say if you're paying 10 basis points and

You're actively trading intraday you might add your broker yeah it's it's gonna be tough yeah that's yeah but I think that's another thing you know building a relationship with a broker and they know that you're sort of

Serious about it and I mean you know you can get competitive brokers out there and as long as they're giving you what you need and I yeah I think that's another big thing you have to think about here your brokerage in and how

Much commission percentage of your profit per day you sort of yeah you're doing yeah it's a big part of it now I guess the the first part of that question which I asked you was when you drew your count down to around about

That eight thousand dollar mark things kind of turned around from there and I don't mean turn around as though like you know just you came down and you bounce straight off but you know things started to pick up yeah did you do

Anything differently or did you just find a bit of groove in the market like can you explain that a little bit yeah sorry I did go on a tangent there I think what I was saying was the I was starting to look yeah I went down to

Trade those loads and on stocks cuz what was happening was I was you know trading sort of you know in be you know stocks out of ten twenty thirty dollars and I just wasn't getting those moves I wasn't you know for each if I had a win rate of

Fifty percent for example you know every trade that I lose I've got the Commission on top of the losing trade as well so I started to go down to the Lord's and armed stocks and really focus on the order flow and not just sort of

You know where a level is like I you know it should be on seer not actually even looking at the what what the price action is doing whether it's there's heavy selling into the support things like that I really

Started to yeah take it much more I put a lot more energy into learning how to read the order flow and that's where things start to turn around and pick up for me okay just on that point about order flow

Is there anything specific which you're looking for I know these types of things can be a little bit hard to put into words but is there something that you'd like to see within the order book in the order book itself I don't really pay all

That much attention because we've all seen it you know what's there one second might be pulled you know it's ticks down one one point but I think what I you know what are really sort of am looking for is I'm

Looking for I almost tell myself as story as weird as it sounds like if I'm in a stock that I have it that has a catalyst and it's and I think all right there's if I see selling pressure I'm

Like okay let's say for example I was you know a big player and I had I had to get rid of you know it's three million units of stock type thing I'm not just gonna chuck it all on the market at once because you know that's not going to

Work so what I'll look for is I want to see you know there's all that these sort of big volumes of in of selling and then maybe letting the the audible feel back back up a little bit and then once a few

More bids appear yeah I want to see it sort of get sold back into again and I try I try and tell myself ok that's where the where the direction is that's where it seems to be anyway and then yeah I want to and I I try and think in

My head if I was that sort of broker that needs to sell all that stock so I am looking for those bigger heavy sellers so once it pulls up a little bit and it you know might not get as far back as it let's say for example it's

Gone to the 625 and it's been sold down its 20 you know it's so it's almost like a I don't know like a pawn just slowly feeling and then all of a sudden splash and all the all the bids get splash out

Of the water again by that big cell I know that's a weird analogy but that's what's gone through made at the moment this particular example which you've described here would this be something which you were looking to trade on the

Short side or is that a long opportunity yeah a bit of both so I'd probably be looking for a short opportunity if I could so there is an example I can think of actually in my head there was fmg so Fortescue Metals which you know they're

Big in oil producer in australia and i remember the iron ore market sorry the iron ore chart was going crazy the on the sini website anyway I remember they just kept going up and up and fmg was just it was going down and I thought ah

Wednesday's you know it's got to be an opportunity coming here for a long they just didn't for days and days on end I own all just kept trending out the price of iron ore and fmg was just getting sold into and that's when I really

Started to remember okay you want to look for that massive massive seller who obviously has that big order and that's when even though in your head you're like oh there's got to be along somewhere until you you know you don't

See the seller around for a while then you know I think especially in that situation that was a short pretty much every day and I actually did quite well on that cuz I finally figured out okay there's a big seller here and he's just

Everyday it appear he'd appear to move up a little bit with sort of in conjunction with the with the iron ore price then it would just get smashed back down so but obviously intraday you do look they're selling in two levels

And you might have a quick scalp off say like a round number usually you're going to get some defense if there was a seller let's say for example selling into six dollars and you're probably going to get a lot of people who are

Like this is a good price to buy so you know if you can get that sometimes if you get a little pop through to the downside you might for a quick long scalp but I wouldn't be if there was a seller that I had sort of

Spotted in the order flow I probably wouldn't be holding on too much longer okay okay Josh I would like to ask you moving on a little bit here I guess to actual improvement are there any steps you're taking currently like deliberate

Steps to help you improve and get better yeah I do journal every day and like you know it is a bit of a bore sometimes but to be fair I really think it's a crucial part in getting better because you make six seven eight trades a day for example

And then basically what you do is you go you know you sort of go to bed you you get up in the morning you just completely forgot about them like in your head you might you remember the sort of the basis of the trade but you

Won't remember the intricacies of it so I think writing it down at the end of the day you know really sort of getting into the nitty-gritty of it and you know writing it up in detail I think it it does help quite a fair bit and I do

Notice that when I really do put in a couple hours after the market closes in doing my journaling I do start to improve again and and that's my goal well that's yeah not my goal but I've sort of given myself the task is you

Have you know you're never too good to journal well not in my position at the moment anyway so I'm just I'm just making sure I do that every day even if it is takes me two hours after market I think it's one of those things that I

Have to do two hours that seems like quite a long time you know ten hours a week sort of thing what goes into your journal like if we were to look at that what what would we see so what I do is I pin all the metrics for all the sort of

The trade like the profit – loss the percentage of the Commission's portray because I'm really trying to focus on that as well like I want to let these if the trades can run a little bit you know if I think I can squeeze a bit more out

Of them like even an extra PP here and there might cover they can the cost of the Commission and so you know nodding into that percentage of the of the actual so of the commission off your profit so I

Want on a bit there but you know I'm looking at also like every setup I've taken I'll annotate the chart as to where I got in where I got out and it does help me a little bit since I've been you know annotating the charts and

I don't really trade off charts but I think it it gives me I still will have a child you watch a chart when I'm trading but I think it sort of helps me especially taking a step back I and I take the five-minute chart so I think

What that does it helps me the next day stop truck you know getting caught up in trading the noise and and also look for better entries because sometimes I'm just you know I you know six months ago I'd be like all Momentum's here I need

To jump straight in and then you know you're you get sort of offside a fair bit if it doesn't you know flush through so if you're shorting it through a level if doesn't flush through straightaway you

Know you getting offside and starting to feel a little bit like I'm not that comfortable in this trade anymore but you ever since I've been doing these annotations I've realized you know you usually you have more time you can kind

Of be a bit more patient and wait for a better entry it's just so much easier to hold a bit longer and then obviously what I'll do as well is I'll do a write-up of the of the trade itself and what except like exactly what I did and

You know what I could probably have done better and yeah if it's if it's a really good set up I might even you know play book that's it up and that's obviously an SMB reference but there's a me capital reference but yeah I learn a lot

From that and that's probably why do and also much okay so there's consistent journaling how about actual goals you know it's a new year started twenty twenty have you thought about specific goals for the

Upcoming twelve months that was I guess one of my goals to really journal hard you know put in the hours but another I want to sort of keep you know my equity curve just keeping up in that nice steady steady line and I think

What that comes down to is when you sort of you look at your metrics of your trades like you you know your P&L ratio yeah what you're sort of win/loss percentages things like that so I'm trying to keep

Those metrics sort of stable not too volatile if that makes sense obviously I'll take the volatility to the upside but you don't want it to come down too much that's when it starts getting a bit messy so but another thing

Is well I've really give myself a goal for this used to to really focus on the market and what it actually does you know speaking to a mate today Brian who has you know sort of trade with chat with imager in a day and more talking

About we've never traded in a on the ASX you know he's similar aged to me maybe a bit older but he is never traded nor if I in when our market is at all-time ice this is this is new for us so it's almost

Like a new frontier for the traders in our position what does the market to when it's when the index is at all-time highs so that's another goal of mine this year to really focus in on where the market is what the market is doing

And how that sort of affects my setups and yeah the trade outcomes things like that yeah I like that last point that's really interesting actually yeah I think it's it's something as as I was kind of

Saying I mentioned it a lot earlier on but yeah you know the market does have all these different variables it'll morph itself into but this is a completely new one for us where you know I think today what do we finish at

All-time eyes of what next year finished at six nine nine four point eight so that's an all-time high for us and yeah you're kind of wondering in my head I'm like is everything – is it overvalued but the market keeps going up so there's

People that are willing to sort of you know keep paying or you know buying these stocks because there's no sort of overhang so I guess you just have to trade what's in front of you and really listen and focus on what the markets

Saying I guess as that sounds moving into a new regime pretty much yeah yeah exactly I'd be interested to ask you this question obviously if we look at how you've traded over the past let's just

Say twelve months you've been profitable so if we look at your account balance you know enter December compared to January at the beginning of the year you've made money but would you consider yourself to be consistently profitable

Because a lot of people that's their goal is to be consistently profitable but I also think a lot of people perhaps don't really think about what that might look like so do you feel as though you've reached a point where you can

Comfortably say I'm consistently profitable you're confident in your ability to make money how do you envision consistency to look like and have you reached that yeah it's it's good point because if you'd asked me

That three months ago I would have said yeah yeah I'm at that point where you know I'm consistently profitable now I'm making enough money that I can live off but then again you know November December came around there just wasn't

As much opportunity for the you know the trades I take and I just turned sideways for quite a while so you know I I think yeah to me consistently profitable is just making money in you know having good results in all market conditions

Probably one of the things the biggest lesson I learned our the last two months where I was turning sideways was when the opportunities aren't there you just have to take a step back like don't not trade or anything but don't try and push

It because every time I was trying to push it that was when I was you know I'd have a good day and I'm like alright tomorrow you know just you know push those trades and I'll just give everything back and it was just it was

It was a cycle over two months and I I mean I didn't really fall back too far in the equity curve and it is just it just looks like it if you looked at it it looks like a chart that's consolidating but I wouldn't say I'm at

The point where yeah especially after this two months I've realized yeah I'm definitely at the point where I can rely on just having money coming in week in week out you know you have to sort of get to the point where even when you

Have a good period you have to sort of squirrel them away I guess squirrelly nuts away so so to speak but yeah I think consistently profitable to me at the goal is to yeah make money even if it's not you know making the same amount

Of good returns we can work out that you do and when when the trades are there for you still don't lose and just sort of keep keep the equity curve ticking up by not doing too much and just waiting

Being patient waiting for the conditions to return in your favor I guess one last question Josh just to take us out here one piece of advice which someone gave you or if they didn't give you directly may be something you've heard or read

Somewhere that actually made a difference I've I've been pretty lucky in the fact that it's a pretty good online community here especially in I mean I'm sure it's the same all around the world but in in Australia a lot of

People who trade in the ASX there's a lot of people out there on Twitter there's chat rooms things like that and I was struggling a little bit I had this one really bad day and you know it was sort of after I'd learned what you know

Sort of increased my skills in learning how to read order flow and things like that but it was as if the trade was I think was challenger financial and I had to got smoked in it like every every time it tried this so you know it got up

It looked like it was going to go further and it pulled back to about the 7 700 level like I said well I I Sayed and said so $7 level and I remember thinking oh this is a good spot to jump in you know I probably went too big too

Soon and then it dropped through and I thought I'd say hey I've still got plenty of bullets and I just kept adding in and it just wouldn't bounce and anyway I you know I took my biggest loss of oh you know it was my worst trade my

Biggest loss of my you know short trading career but it really got me down and anyway I have a few people that are saying that I trade with and you know sort of going through through the chain with Chuck Chuck and Libby after market

And Levy said said to me she goes why were you in that trade and I said well what do you mean like I was just waiting for it to bounce she's like yeah every time it bounced it couldn't even get sort of 2 3 ticks up which was you know

In his $7 stock you know it was hardly moving up whatsoever just gets sold into sold into she's like you had a bias there and you completely gave up your sort of you know your order flow reading there just because you had a bias that

You thought it was going to bounce because it was an earnings earning seasons play and at that from that day onwards it really stuck like one I was kind of embarrassed that you know I had been so

Undisciplined then – she she told me pretty bluntly and I really thank her for it because from that day onwards I really started when I was disciplined but – I really got a bit more of a handle on on reading the order flow

Because as I said every time that stock tried to bounce it would be sold into and sold into heavily so it just wasn't there was no long trade there whatsoever on the downside basically she told me a new one and but it really stuck in from

That I think that was the lowest point of my equity curve and ever since then it has God sorry lowest point in this last financial year that we just had so starting in June sorry July yes since that that day you

Know equity curves gone up and I think I had about ten or eleven winning weeks in a row like green weeks and there are two that so one it sunk in and – because I you know review my trades with these these guys are so after the market every

Day I don't want to sort of be embarrassed again if that makes sense you have that sort of pride in yourself as well but yeah she she gave me an earful and I deserved it and it's stuck it's basically she said forget your bias

Trade trade what the price action is doing trade the order flow yeah I love that example man absolutely makes sense – yeah do you mind sharing some figures around that yeah sure so I think by the end of the trade like I was trying to

Scalp a little way out of it but then bad in I think by the end of it all that I was about four and a half grand down just on that one trade and for me that was a pretty big loss that was you know like I'd be happy with a four and a half

Grand week let alone a day so at that stage and yeah that was basically yeah really put me on a place but ever since then I think after that day I end up within a month I'd sort of I had a you know $20,000 a month and then followed

That up with another $10,000 a month and then yeah so we kind of sitting where I'm in that sideways action at the moment but yeah I'll probably have Libby to thank for that um daddy bashing she gave me oh that's

Awesome man good stuff Josh if someone wants to fire you on Twitter would you mind sharing your handle yeah of course not so if they want to follow me my handle is at Josh J Evans three five and there's a picture

Of me with a big dirty mustache on there with a with a sausage dog in my hand so you won't miss me okay very good well I do want to say Josh I pressure you putting your hand up to do this this podcast and also appreciate how open

You've been and sharing I think it's gonna be very relatable to a lot of people listening you know a lot of people who are considering going into full time trading probably gives them bit more of a understanding about what

To expect yes thank you very much for doing this now it's been a pleasure yeah really happy that you've had me on either tell my tale and I hope it hope it works because it is pretty lonely out

There when you first start and be daunting so it can be done and hopefully in two years time I I'll come back and I'll be more successful of a successful trader for sure yeah we'll have to lock that and it would be great to have you

Back sometime sure man that'd be good Oh Josh enjoy your evening and we'll chat soon cheers buddy you've reached the end of this episode of chaplet traders but rest assured

There are more episodes loaded with real market insight and zero hype on the way soon so to stay updated with each great new release subscribe to the podcast on iTunes and we'd love it if you'd leave a rating and review we'll catch you next

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