MSI Responds to VRM Thermal Issues: X570 Tomahawk, New Cases

by birtanpublished on October 1, 2020

everyone we're closing out our trip in
Taipei for our factory tourists we have
a lot of factory footage live already
and we have more coming to the the
channel including a couple of tours of a
power supply facility if it's not all
ready online by the time this video goes
up but now we have an update on MSI we
visited a Massiah to check out some of
their upcoming motherboards and one of
them was the x5 70 tomahawk and that
board specifically is supposed to be a
response to vrm thermal concerns so
we're gonna report on the updates to the
x5 70 tomahawk and also talked about
some of the cases that MSI is working on
just briefly before they come to market
later this year before that this video
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Squarespace so first for the motherboard
is 2 X 570 tomahawk this board it was
shown at CES and not too much has
changed but now it's been positioned
more strategically as a response to
concerns of MSI's VRMs running among the
hottest of the x5 so kneeboard msre says
that the memory is mostly unchanged it's
still daisy-chained but they have a
couple of updates between PCB versions
1.1 and 1.3 namely that the PCB version
1.3 which will either full retail
version that you all will be able to buy
later will have improved spacing between
the circuits which should improve memory
performance and memory overclocking
performance especially it should get it
closer to the rest of the AMA size x5
Sony lineup from what the company has
told us the heatsink is large but we had
a couple of criticisms of it it's
uncertain at this point whether any of
our criticisms will make it into the
final product I should note that the x5
Sony tomahawk was originally planned for
mass production this month so
March but that all got pushed back due
to human malware so MSI we actually I'll
talk about this ribbit – Emma size
Factory in Shenzhen we visited before it
was shut down for about two months
because of first Lunar New Year and then
the extended shutdown 4cv concerns and
they're just now getting back online but
the issue the postponement of the
exercise 7e tomahawk is for more reasons
than just Emma size factory being shut
down is that the supply factories were
affected so the heatsink manufacturers
then you can also have some ripple
effect through SMD manufacturers and
even if the SMD makers the surface mount
device makers are still operating they
buy all their materials from someone so
metal suppliers raw material suppliers
and those factories might be affected as
well so the end result is that mass
production moves from this month to
probably April maybe May but they're
pushing for the expo so many tomahawk to
come out as soon as they can get it out
ideally before a rise in 4000 series
start parts start shipping but it is
delayed definitely until at least April
at this point so anyway the heatsink the
upside of the delay is that it's
possible there could be some changes
implemented but overall it's fairly
finalized the heat sink we think needs
some holes in it to breathe right now it
looks like a very large heatsink it's
just it's a narrow stack on top of the
MOSFETs and then just a bridge over
towards the i/o and it the whole point
of it is to cover the i/o and make it
look uniform and pretty as a motherboard
manufacturers are often attempting to do
these days the downside the thing we're
concerned about is that heat generation
of the MOSFETs will sort of pool in that
area between the i/o and the heatsink
and I'll just create a hot pocket of air
a hot pocket of air free advertisement
for them there's no escape for the air
out of the rear i/o though so we've
recommended punching some holes in there
somewhere either slats in the vrm
heatsink or just holes in the back where
the i/o shield is because right now it's
kind of a heat trap it's still a big
heatsink it's a lot of mass but there's
not a ton of surface area and I messiah
is looking at increasing the fin density
and actually doing proper fins for the
heatsinks for future motherboards that
we can't talk about today so that's a
good move it's one that gigabyte made it
a couple of years ago but as far as the
ex-wife so many tomahawk it's still
mostly just a large piece of metal
that's made first for visuals and and
for function second
that said the vrm should take care of a
good amount of the dissipation or the
spread of heat across the service area
of the board we'd have to see in testing
if it actually is a market improvement
over the existing boards from MSI but
what we know today is that it uses is
l99 360s they are 60 amp our stages I'm
going to send all this information over
to build Zoid and he's going to make
sure that it looks good he'll provide
his opinion on it we'll run a video but
there's 60 amp power stages it's 12
phase 2 phases for the SOC and the
controller at 12 phase for the V 4 V
core I should say controller isn't is
l69
2 4 7 and the doubler is my SL 66 1 7 a
the board is supposed to cost 200 to 210
dollars so the price point hasn't really
changed since CES but MSI was a bit more
hesitant and giving us that price it
sounds like it might move around in the
upwards direction a little bit as a
result of some changes that they've made
specifically because of concerns with VR
and thermals on their motherboards so
they're increasing the cost to improve
the thermal performance because
obviously you need to spend more money
to improve the components other info on
the board so the well then the heatsink
kind of being lacking in our opinion the
other things to know CPU fan and pump
fan are up near the RAM the bottom row
down at the south end of the motherboard
has four fan slots all next to each
other air fan headers and the there's to
RGB headers near the RAM there's an easy
debug LED pretty standard stuff and all
the board's including this one that
MSI's making are moving towards type C
support for front panels and the future
additional information the 90 degree
connectors that have started to become
pop popular with gigabyte and EVGA msi
is looking into those but has no further
comment at this point so you might see a
90 degree 24 pins at some point in the
future from them the thermal performance
we haven't tested the board we don't
have it
but MSI has run internal tests and we
did ask about their methodology and it
sounds reasonable but we haven't run the
test ourselves so you know grain of salt
currently it looks like homicide is
expecting the x5 so many tomahawks to be
around were the X 570 unified performs
in terms of vrm thermal performance MSI
measures this with a FLIR thermal camera
we criticize those a lot but there are
times when they make sense and a lot of
that depends on how much money you spend
on one
so assuming they're using a good FLIR
imager it should be within a couple
degrees of a thermocouple thermocouples
going to give you more data resolution
under the heatsink whereas the FLIR
cameras are more useful for removing the
heatsink and getting a baseline measure
of how does the vrm do without a
heatsink and then F once you put the
heatsink on you obviously can't see the
fats anymore and measuring the metal
doesn't help so you'd have to take PCB
measurements and you're live erm but
anyway they say it should be a bit right
around where they unify is if you're
curious about that additional
information the cases are kind of
disappointing at present but have
Headroom so MSI has actually implemented
some of our feedback we feel like the
the bulk of the major items we've
provided feedback on its kind of been
left out of the cases but they are
improving in some areas so the secure
100-hour and the gun near 110 are the
new case is the both models made more of
a gap between the front of the chassis
and the front of the front panel so that
the fans mounted at the front of the
case can pull air in more successfully
at that 90 degree angle where it enters
the case they haven't really ventilated
the front at all the gun near 110 R is
the case that's got a big glass sheet on
the front left side of the panel and
apparently they're gonna have a mesh
version of that where the the glass on
the front left would be removed and then
mash would be used instead so that's a
potential area for a case that's not
completely horrible for thermals we'd
have to test it we're supposed to have
units potentially coming on the way both
have type C support the pricing is 110
for the secure 100 R and 80 to 90
dollars
the gun there I had a lot of criticisms
of the cases and we talked about this at
CES but we sort of break it into two
pieces where four cases they're sort of
the case manufacturers who generally
know what they're doing most of the time
and then there's the motherboard makers
and there are two different camps the
motherboard makers can't seem to really
get it right so far Asus has done the
second worst job at making computer
cases that don't suck and gigabyte has
done the first worst job at making cases
that don't suck MSI is not really they
haven't really made the push that asus
has so far into cases they've also been
the most open to listening to criticism
and they've tried the hardest and
implementing it but there's the problem
where they don't own the factory so I'm
like it company like Coolermaster or Lea
me where we've seen their factories and
they can deploy changes and roll them
out immediately MSI has to rely on
whatever its supplier can sell it and
that often means very limited
customization options so there's a lot
of places still where we're hoping to
see MSI improve in its case design
department but right now it's still
pretty weak and the biggest problem is
thermals and air intake at the front of
the case we talked to them a lot about
it it's mostly glass and aluminum right
now there's some upsides MSI has got a
decent handle on quality in terms of the
panel quality the chassis haven't really
played with it but the front panels feel
good it's just there they're not the
right design for us other items of note
the removal of the side panels is
similar to Lian Lee's currently it's all
prototype it's not out yet and if they
go forward with that and do the the top
removal to secure the two side panels
within six pins holding it in that would
actually be a really good feature so the
side panel security is one of the best
things they've done but it's that's
that's the primary feature that we liked
on it so the thin MSI is trying to do
right now is overcome some of the
thermal limitations created by the
panel's by using more fans that's been
shown to work NZXT has been fairly
successful with it with like the h7 10
where NZXT has overcome an inefficient
design by throwing a lot more brute
force in there the downside is you start
creating more noise and it is
inefficient so at some level you start
trading off where is it really cheaper
to do this front panel design and throw
more fans in there there's it make more
sense to cut out half the fans and just
make a front panel that actually
breathes it's possible to meet halfway
Lee Ann Lee has done it with their own
where they've still got glass and glass
and then intake on the side so it's kind
of hidden but MSI is not quite there yet
so anyway it looks like Emma sighs got a
we genuinely think Emma sighs people
during the cases have the right
intentions which is to improve the
product it's just that the company is
new to this and they don't have a lot of
experience with cases yet so it's gonna
take them a while to get there and we're
trying to push them in the right
direction but the changes I've been
really slow to come to fruition and some
of that's because it's based on a
supplier and they don't own the factory
that makes the cases so anyway the two
cases weren't really things that
impressed us too much but we do want to
see how the gun near performs with the
mesh panel that might actually be not
completely terrible because you'd have
at least half of the front would be open
so we'll see it might do okay and
testing especially with that many fans
it could do well compared to a lot of
the other cases that are less efficient
still the pricing is about right is just
the rest of the features we need to see
improvement on anyway that's gonna be it
for MSI the XY so many tomahawks aboard
we want to look at we should have one on
the way after we get back and check back
for our factory tours you can subscribe
for more or click the link in the
description below for additional factory
tour footage from our trip here in
Taiwan and or go to patreon.com/scishow
sexist helps out directly or store
documents it's not net we'll see you all
next time

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