Meat Eater Has Questions for Vegan Activist

by birtanpublished on August 23, 2020

during when those like new five-pound notes came out I remember on my TV anyways these these vegans came up out were interviewed and they were they were saying that the they need to change the new notes because they have like a

Miniscule amount of like well fat allo yeah I was it was a cow fat sorry yeah like what are your thoughts on that like as a vegan in terms of but does it does it affect you does it affect would you say though to you if you can only speak

For yourself obviously better for you anyways as a vegan what is that like in terms of having to handle money so that has you know count count fat say that is yeah it's a good question I think I think it's I think it's bad that that's

What happened at the same time we live in a world where animal use in that sense this company is so normalized to the point where we don't we don't even realize how far it's permeated for our society right there are animal products

In so many different things that we never really think about it and we're so detached from the process anyway that even if we do think about it it doesn't really I mean I can think about the animal found the five-pound note but it

Doesn't really process as being something's is so abstract you know so and also look at that sorry to interrupt you like when you look at a five-pound note you don't see oh a calf at all ever so like yeah and so what sets me most

About that is it shows how far that our kind of like I would I don't know what the word would be is how far we've neglected the the rights of animals to halt like just personhood and autonomy which the things that we take very much

As principles and ideas within like our society this idea that our body belongs to us and we've completely taken their body away from them to the point where we reduce it to things like five-pound notes money and that's what annoys me

The most it's just this kind of like complete denial of their of their autonomy I suppose now of course you know if we're gonna kill them for me only makes sense to use their body parts and other things as well I mean that you

Know if you're following that line of thinking that's the logical progression to make and so but the point I'd make is that the the primary pillars of why we use animals food clothing entertainment and you've got testing which is slightly

Out of that picture if we knock down those pillars then all of a sudden all these other smaller factors would have to be addressed anyway because we're not gonna kill cows just for five and ten pound No

Completely ridiculous and we'd all agree it was wherever we meet or not and so for me it's just it's it just highlights the state of the world that we've got to that we reduce these animals he's sent in animals to a point that they're worth

So little we turn them into things like 500 or carrier bags is that you saying them and can please come if I'm wrong but what you're saying reminds me of like the distinction between like it's actually religious concepts but like

Like Dominion ship and stewardship right so like I think this is I think this is right so I'm sorry if it is wrong but Dominion ship is the other side the minion ship is the idea that like you know animals are they only exist for the

Use of humans to be used whereas stewardship is more there are their companions they have that not I don't think the stewardship necessarily means oh we can't have we can't eat say we can't ever eat any animals some of that

But I think it just gives them a more animal-like more rights basically and more I respect yeah I think religious texts are not not to dispute religious texts necessarily but there's translation

Issues right and so there's a lot of words that get translated differently Dominion I think the purpose of Dominion is the same way that you would you could classify that parent has dominion over their child meaning they have complete

Control over them right they can dictate how they live what they do all of these how they're raised what they think what their morals are and so Dominion really doesn't it doesn't doesn't mean that you have the right to abuse or the right to

Harm it just means you have control and I think with that ownership comes a sense of responsibility right to look after and so stewarding is an interesting locus to deenis is to kind of like to shepherd to look after it

Certain nurture right and so I think what I think as like the most intelligent species of which is what we are most physically dominant species which of course we are there comes a right to look after not exploit in the

Same way that because we are physically more dominant than it than a child that means we should look after them you know it's funny in in human society we view those who are most vulnerable as those who deserve protection the most but when

We take our view outside of the human centric world and look at non-human animals we almost reverse that and say oh well you know chickens have kind of powerless so we can do we want them because they're weak and they know there

Were small brains and so and the obvious one gives us the right almost like on a lower plane of like existence to us yeah but I think what's important is that it's not about our differences our differences are

Arbitrary and our cognitive abilities our you know our physical appearance whether we walk swim fly that's arbitrary well what's what's important is what connects us and that's you know consciousness sentence the capacity to

Feel pain and suffer and the ability to experience things like happiness even it you know happiness in different forms and happiness with different reasons but a sense of being content you know and you know raising families being

Matriarch us as cows are of course that's what's important not not what they look like or you know how fast they can run or if they can write a symphony and and I think we sometimes we lose that because within our own species we

Have different cognitive abilities we know of course we look different as well but for superfluous reasons that doesn't connotates you know morality or how we should view one another and it's funny how we hopefully apply that unanimously

To our our species and say well we're different but that's not what's important but when it comes to non-human animals we say they're different and so that's what that's what justifies er you know I think like as a meat-eater like I

Guess I don't feel any guilt when I when I'm eating a bit of chicken se or or you know stuff like that but I think I definitely I definitely do that's not to say that I don't acknowledge that there is an issue with it because there

Definitely is you know and to be honest I I think I know this isn't me saying you're doing this like at all because you're not you're coming from like a genuine place and you're not I you know how like this the minority ruin it for

The many yeah you know so I definitely do think there's like you know like the videos of like a vegan you take it too far say or in terms of like how they communicate what they're feeling and because it because they feel naturally

So strongly about it I I definitely I definitely do think it's unfortunate anyways at that that veganism is is a is a small thing in terms of just the amount of people that actually are population wise I mean I'm interested to

See like what what are your views on say like meat-eater say like in just in terms of you know yeah this is a great question and so yeah I think what happens in a morally motivated decisions as people

Can become overly it's not overly passion people use that passion and because they become angry if they've become disenfranchised by society maybe and then they they blame people within society for the problems of society

Which makes sense simplistically but actually it's a lot more complicated than that and so you know I do believe that consumer animal products is immoral but I don't think it makes you a bad person because we're raised in society

That dictates values right to us culture which assigns us values you know these aren't things that we necessarily have control over you know we've grew up in a world where the majority of people do something we're told it's natural normal

Necessary legal and acceptable then why would we have a question are we there's many cases for our history whether whether that's happened you know what mass groups of people do something that's wrong but that it's not

Necessarily their fault because they're brought into this world believing it's right and so I don't think that people are bad people are they're consciously doing bad things and they want to hurt animals and that's kind of the paradox

Of it because most of us are against animal cruelty I think there was a poll by the RSPCA that said like ninety seven percent you know people are against animal cruelty right but we sorry let me finish that

Point quickly but we partake in things like no tail docking mutilations we take babies away from others we gassed them in gas chambers we hang on side down cut their throat it's all unnecessary and so four against one kicking a dog then why

Don't we get someone taking you know chopping the tail off a pig or gassing them in a gas chamber when all of them you know what unites all those things is that completely arbitrary and unnecessary to live you know I was

Actually gonna say just to reinforce what you were saying actually I think there was a stat come up with was but yeah basically over a point of it was saying is that animal charities actually receive more money than human ones which

Obviously coincides but you're saying that ninety seven percent of people were you know are against animal cause I mean I sure I am but I'm still a meat-eater so I can see the hypocrisy and I can see where the frustration comes from yeah

You see those memes don't you it's like I'm human dies in the film like blank-faced dog dies in the film cry yeah it's true like we see on a most suffering and it not almost brings up a morva it brings up more of a reaction

And if we see like another maybe that's because we're desensitized to human suffering in movies about animal suffering is a bit different I don't know but you're right in the sense of but why is it that we then draw that

Line wise we say oh this person beat this dog they should go to Bruce or this person you know cold this pig in a farm or this person has bought bacon which is contributed to an animal suffering the slaughterhouse why is it

Once fine but the others are all ones wrong but the others are fine is there a world in which like let's say you go to like an alternate reality right and you had a world where the people's consumption of of say of of meat was

Like on an insane level just reduced down right and you know that the animals that were breeded and suffered that were there isn't any other way of saying killed in a but in a humane and in a humane sense right would you reduce it

Would you seek would there be any like potential for as a vegan waster to to find that at least but more acceptable in comparison to say the world we're in now unfortunately there are scales okay and so we would say that probably the

Situation and now is almost as bad as it can get right yeah we can animals by the trillions in horrendous most you know we do it well I mean look at the chickens mere billions hundreds of billions right so it let's scale it right back ripe

It's still it's still problematic in the sense of it doesn't matter if you're doing it to trillions are doing it to millions are doing it to hundreds the act itself is wrong to the individual and now if we use the word humane we

Have to define what that word means and so what does the word humane mean like a in an objective sense okay how are this natural death so you you raise the cow obviously be a lot more I'm just saying in this universe you know you know you

Can off the farmer can afford to do it say but what if the if the cow lifts all is old and it died nationally and then you know whilst it was still fresh then it was then it was process for the for consumption I mean I would imagine

In this universe meat would then become only for the bourgeoisie say but oh well they're the upper echelons and although but like you know excluding that that's just time Jones well I guess but yeah yeah what if an animal just died

Naturally and you rate you bread the animals but they died naturally and then you can see in them I mean first of all as you rightfully say it can't exist in that way practically speaking we don't have land to have that there's a reason

We kill animals while the younger which is also because of the meat you know if we cows can live 20 maybe even 25 sometimes the meats gonna be very tough by that point so we're not even going to enjoy it let's say though that that's

Perfect the meats fine we'll still enjoy it lovely and smooth about the moral principle yeah I think you couldn't necessarily just effort from from my philosophical perspective it wouldn't necessarily be immoral because they're

Dead but it's an act of respect in the same way that if someone had like a Labrador the Labrador died after you know 14 15 years of a great life I would find it really weird if the people who looked after the dog then ate them you

Know would it would it be immoral maybe not but it would probably be a bit disrespectful in the same way that even if when I'm dead if someone ate me it wouldn't necessarily be you know immoral in the

Sense of I'm not suffering but at the same time it wouldn't be what I'd want and it'd be disrespectful to MIT to what I would have wanted now is life even though you know wherever that holds up from a philosophical perspective I don't

Know but I would say it's just an active disrespect to do that and the sense of it'd be nicer if you if you had this cow they live for twenty years they were part of the family or part of you know your life give them a nice burial

Cremate them scatter ashes whatever just treat them as if they were more than just an object who you were you know you know tapping fingers hoping they die soon to eat you know let's take it back to what we're saying cuz we got to this

Point cuz which I might humane slaughter and you said who I said we know paid to find humans thought you said a natural death okay so let's take that natural death out of the equation an animal just dine you know from from whatever natural

Cause would be is there still a way to kill them in a humane way and okay let's define humane again what does the word humane mean it's like a definition or can you can you give some like B ophisaurus for the word human so you

Could do maybe lethal injection potentially in terms of like I don't know how painful that would be obviously but I would imagine in comparison to how that how it's done you know now in terms of the you know got the rod then you

Pull against the back of their head then it just buckshots them and they just die well oh it's done and then they have their first cut yeah let's say okay because well I think we can argue maybe like different ways let's say that we

Create an idealistic world right well we can kill an animal I mean the reason we don't leave for you finish them with an injection like we do dogs is because it's um it's bad for the meat you open like a poison

Almost in and it goes through the body right so it wouldn't be suitable for human consumption okay but let's say we create as wonderful system maybe we just go and shoot them in the back of the head they have no idea about it right

And they have no suffering they've lived a wonderful life everything's fantastic we just take their life they have no awareness they have no pain no suffering is that then humane well the word humane objectively would means having my

Showing compassion or benevolence so if I'm if I say you're a humane person it means that you're a benevolent person you're a good person you're a kind person you're a compassionate person and so then if we apply the word humane to

Slaughter we have to also plus other words to it to see if that still works so we Nazi moron because we wouldn't say compassionate yeah exactly want to say compassionate slaughter or kind slaughter and even if we kill them in a

Way that they feel no pain and they're not aware of it we still taken their life away from them right when we don't have to so in the same way someone can come up behind me right now shoot me I'd have no idea but

I would still rather live my life and enjoy it myself have happiness experienced families whatever it is that I would like to do aspirationally then be killed right now and if I don't feel that and so even the sense of an animal

Even if we take their life from them they're still in we're still taking a life unnecessarily and so that can't be compassion or kind you know what I mean because you can't live obviously without and thrive without without me I would

Say the word humane applied to slaughter creates an oxymoron because the two can't exist because they take the life an animal who does not need to die for an unnecessary reason can never be compassionate or kind and therefore can

Never be humane either it's an industry term right it's like free-range we put the word free ok and we put our ideals of freedom and so to us being free means living a good life you know being out being autonomous doing what you want

Around for a couple hours that's probably what the the reality of it well think of it this way these industries have to make money off us right so if they say this came from an animal who lived in a gestation crate which is a

Crate where the pigs can't turn around to when they or a farrowing crate they can't turn around ok they stay in those crates for six to eight weeks they're then putting like a massive pen and then we found them up and send them to

Slaughter you're not gonna want to buy it but if they say oh it's high welfare sounds good right so they put these labels on it to make you buy the Suttons it yeah it uses our conscience yeah yeah I guess so hundred percent okay I did

Obviously I didn't come here to say like to try and justify being a meat-eater because I I don't think I don't think you can ultimately justify it because I class I classify eating meat so I would well now anyways I was classifying me as

Almost almost like you know on this to be on the same level say as as going out to a theme park saying it's like a luxury kind of I guess is and I guess in terms of in the Western world you know we all love our luxuries you know we all

We all we all love having our lives easier and we want the tastiest thing and and I guess a lot of people will tribute me to be the tastiest thing unfortunately and it's fine to accept that meat tastes nice I used to think it

Was I didn't stop eating it because I didn't think it tasted nice right and also it's interesting it you you you you make that point about we've you meat has been a luxury and that's really interesting because there is a

Historical context you know back you know during times of famine even during the war right you know meat was a luxury to most people the booze was either you know the aristocracy that the wealthy could could afford it you know even go

Back further to the kings and queens in the medieval times it was really late during the 1950's then to the 60s where we started factory farming that meat and animal products became commercially available to the average person and so

We've kind of clung on to that because it's a sign of prosperity right it's a sign of we're out of war you know we've got a good economy where world we're becoming more affluent as a species we live in a bountiful life and it's almost

And I don't I think this is a conscious thing but it's almost like going back to in plant foods has the idea of going back to eating like the peasants did right eating just simple foods now it's almost it's almost like we're giving up

That sign of prosperity and wealth because we're taken away the big roast dinner from the middle of the table they're replacing it with something else no more vegan Sunday roast I think there is an interesting point to that that

Maybe has more of a historical context than we've done we think okay I don't want to keep you too much longer so let me just say you recognized and all you sat down you said you don't there's a justification to not be vegan

Necessarily but you aren't vegan yourself and so moving forward from this point onwards what would stop you from trying veganism I guess well the the truthful answer would be a lack of knowledge I think I

Think I can I think I could stand out here and say that I do have that lack of knowledge in terms of so you know for example you know one of the me personally right one of my goals this year is you know going to gym getting

Getting strong getting muscly every every not bike plan or whatever but everyone says oh you've loads of protein yeah what and then my instinct is old meat you know so I guess in terms the lack of knowledge like I'm sure you can

Get but there are obviously alternatives so let's of high protein like sources of food so in that respect I will say like definitely like don't have that knowledge yeah yeah I mean yeah yeah education is key because knowledge is

Power and the thing as we as I said before we're raised with one set of ideas right one set of beliefs now I didn't really come across because um until quite recently I imagine most of us didn't and so for our entire lives

We've been raised been taught one side of the story and now the other side of the stories come along and it's been spoken about quite a lot you know admittedly but still compared to what we've been taught our whole lives is

Still very small and so without the education to offer but what the other side looks like how can we ever make an informed decision and so part of I guess what I want to do by being here and just in general in my life is to give people

Not just the knowledge but hopefully inspiration to go and research it themselves so go home and look at where can I get protein from you'll find you can get it in nuts seeds beans grains soy you know all these different

Products easily and your look that you'll notice all the different things so any question that you have go home and and research and have a look I will take you up on that I think I'm cuz I do have to go but also

And this isn't out of you know obviously as you gave it it's not from a place of like this respect that I have to go and so for that I would love to say in Chapel don't worry about it but we'll say to you

I don't know what you're filming for actually to be honest about this yeah yeah but I was gonna say was I think to be honest what you are doing here anyways is a good thing in terms of just wait raising awareness and I think it is

Hard to make people change because obviously you know psychologically you know you grow up believing what your parents told you and it's all you're like by the time you're you know X amount old you know all your beliefs and

Your fundamentals are like learning behaviors from society and and stuff like that so it is it is like incredibly hard to like break the will I guess yeah is math task but what I will say is as time goes by well I will do I will do do

My research I guess you know not ironically as well but yeah now I really enjoyed it I really enjoyed learning like your perspective and your signs maybe write down boys is gonna go okay let me write down for you I didn't got a

Phone on look at y'all give you subscribed yeah yeah there's a bunch of stuff on there but there's also loads of other stuff online so don't don't stay refined till I say look at the snare as well well listen I've really enjoyed it

Likewise yeah

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