LIVE IN TAIWAN 2: Preventing for Freedom

published on July 3, 2020

oh so Shelly I think we made a wrong

turn I don't know if you can see this

big crowd of people back there I saw a

bunch of people holding up this hand

sign I think we're at some kind of all

trite white supremacist rally here in

Taiwan so Chris that is the number 3

because tying wins number 3 on the

ballot so they're telling people to vote

for the president for president why

can't they do this

some people were also doing that well

I'm offended by the confusion that I got

ok maybe you need to get a little more

sleep that's not possible

I've been sleeping too much all right so

last night we were at the same spot

covering the Hangul you the KMT

presidential candidate rally this is now

the Democratic Progressive Party rally

for the Democratic candidate candidate

tying one who's the incumbent and you

know it's interesting to see the

difference between the two nights I'd

say there I can't really gauge how many

people there are like they said there

was like 900,000 people last night I

think there's some crowd inflation going

on boss at these rallies when we were up

there earlier they said there are some

180,000 people here so far but it's also

you know we actually go ahead go ahead

and go in

no go ahead the people are so different

tonight versus last night like last

night everyone's were waving the ROC

flag they had like weird hats and lots

of schwag political swag everyone

say that again I was saying that today

it just looked like normal people going

to a concert or an event yesterday it

looked like diehard fans of something it

was like going to a Styx concert sure I

date myself I've I think you dated

yourself older than you actually also

we're not being mobbed by people like

leaning over our shoulder or making

bunny ears that was fun

that was fun but yeah there's maybe a

little bit of enthusiasm gap but

actually from what we were told and like

the people we talked to it seemed like

everybody who is expecting this rally to

be much smaller yeah then yesterday's

rally and it doesn't seem to be that

much smaller it wasn't that because like

the hanbok you rally yesterday was so

big a lot of people got kind of freaked

out and so came out in force did hear

that anecdotally from some people but

it's you know can't gauge if that

actually turned a lot of people out I

think also this is the night before the

election and the way that Taiwan's

electoral system works you have to go

back to your registered household

address to vote so for a lot of people

they have to travel to vote not where

they're living now like maybe you came

to Taipei and you're living here to work

but your households registered in your

hometown so you got to travel now it's

kind of a weird system like there's no

absentee ballots either everyone anyone

who's Taiwanese has to come back here to

vote the Taiwanese government said they

got 5200 some Taiwanese registered to

come back from overseas to vote which is

double the number from the last election

four years ago people are very on edge

about this election on both sides really

there's a lot of anxiety so there's

but I would say that like it seems like

for this rally a little bit more subdued

but not noticeably like sparse crowds

also I think for younger people like I

have to say this does seem like age wise

a more diverse crowd than what we saw

yesterday yeah that's true I wouldn't

call this a young rally but it's barely

more age diverse but there are it is a

thing that like younger people don't

really come out to political rallies as

much this one is going on later into the

evening it's going on that kind of shows

the age you go it goes on for an hour

longer and I don't think sanguine has

even come out yet it's a it's going on

for another hour behind us we've had to

back away

once again we tried to get up front it

was a nightmare but to do the live

there's too many people to have any

internet connection so we had to back

away a lot so this what you see around

us is not indicative of what the actual

crowd size is that's true we were

talking a little bit about like the

interesting difference and political or

like I was calling it democracy culture

oh yeah yeah that was interesting

so like when we're in Hong Kong you know

every time you went to a Hong Kong

protest you knew that like okay there

would be people at a certain place there

would be all the different you know

political parties passing out stuff

there would be people passing out

posters to hold during a rally like it

was just like a way that you could see

every rally goes this way and now that

we've been to a few Taiwan political

rallies you know there's food vendors

there's always these ones are very quiet

right now because again the main part of

the rally is several hundred feet behind

us there's almost a night market vibe

some of this a lot of like different

kinds of political swag like we saw some

photos of tying when little like cute

penguin figurines yesterday people were

selling ROC flags but with hand will use

hyung would you on top of the flag it's

an interesting choice we have not in

person seen that much of that tonight no

but so you have like a lot of this

different types of political culture in

different places which is pretty

interesting to look at because yeah

another big difference between tonight's

rally and last night's as we saw some

Hong Kong protesters here waving flags

getting you know showing support for

Taiwan's democracy shouting still some

of the slogans from Hong Kong five

demands and not one last but you didn't

see any of the Hong Kong protesters at

the KMT rally last night sometime I

don't think that's their natural habitat

I was gonna say constituency yeah but

yeah I mean Hong Kong has definitely

played a big role it definitely played a

role in this election we'll have an

episode coming out about that the real

key to that story will be how the

election actually turns out and people

are nobody really knows how the

selection is going to go there's a

couple weeks ago it was polling that

Tanglin was very happy bullied yeah but

people are concerned you know we've had

experience over the past couple of years

the polls are not always accurate and so

yeah people have okay still having some

slight internet problems but yeah I was

saying is it's going to be interesting

to see like if tying win wins

how much does on both you lose by is it

a big margin is a tiny margin how much

of the legislature goes to the KMT or

DPP so there's gonna be a lot of

interesting analysis so we're gonna have

to be doing after this election rabbits

free tomorrow

doing tomorrow we have a late night in a

livestream well I guess the land a live

stream yeah we're moving back now closer

to the action

okay yes that we will be live-streaming

tomorrow night during the actual

election itself so stay tuned because

really this election does affect all of

you watching because how Taiwan stands

up to the Chinese counties party which

is a big part of this election does kind

of set the course for what will happen

to the rest of the world as well and

yeah all I can say is thank goodness the

711s in Taiwan are amazing because we

can get lots of food and coffee to keep

us going all night long well I think how

it goes depends on how tight the race is

like they could call it by 8 or 9 pm

we will not know until like 1:00 in the


I hope it's earlier I'd like to get to

sleep we're a little sleep deprived yeah

I might have noticed yeah they'd have

another themes oh so we can start taking

some questions from people but one thing

speaking of the Chinese Communist Party

influence on the election to bring up is

the disinformation campaign that's been

going on all right let's get into that

and then we'll do some questions so an

interesting thing that's been happening

is that the Chinese Communist Party has

been using more social media I'm sorry I

just saw the thumbnail math used for the

live that's pretty great that's pretty

great I did not notice that guy's hat

whoa yeah good job Matt good job man

yeah go ahead show the disinformation

campaign they're using a lot there's the

new thing this time is actually YouTube

which we had nothing to do with it I


so the thing is like there's a lot of

you know just like on American English

language YouTube there's a lot of

YouTube personalities that provide

political commentary so there have been

more and more people talking about

Taiwan politics on YouTube the key is

that some of these people are actually

like there's this one guy who's not


yang sudah and he has a TV or YouTube

show called C da on Taiwan where he

analyzes Taiwanese politics and a lot of

people think he's Taiwanese because he

sometimes speaks in Hokkien which is a

dialect that's used in large parts of

southern China Southeast Asia but also

like 70% of Taiwanese people speak

Hokkien but the thing is John Cena is

not Taiwanese is actually a employee of

the state-run China national radio yes

so here is a Chinese state-run media

kind of having a political commentary

show on YouTube that's trying to

influence how people feel about

Taiwanese politics while disguising it

as like some time we need you guys

opinion also there problems with content

farms on Facebook churning out a bunch

of a lot of the same things you heard in

the 2016 US presidential and the key

here again familiar with the what

happened in the 2016 US election is

they're not necessarily just trying to

spew out like Pro Chinese Communist

Party propaganda they're actually trying

to also divide Taiwanese society that

might sound a little familiar yeah yeah

just make be making people fight that's

that's a big thing but social media has

played a big role in these elections

sanguin has done a lot of collaboration

with youtubers time and needs youtubers

to try and reach a younger audience

sadly she did not reach out to us are

you a Taiwanese youtuber well yeah I'm

in Taiwan buying youtubing I am a

Taiwanese youtuber currently not sure

that's how it works Chris yeah well you

could become one we could just give up

an answer and move to Taiwan and start

doing thing like

episodes about Taiwan she'll show up god

yeah how sure what's my Chinese name do

I have one more chop or is that really

your Chinese name I don't know that just

told me I should get a Chinese name okay

no suggestions for Kristen I'm an

American youtuber in Taiwan well I mean

there is a niche for that kind of stuff

yeah I'm sure but yeah you could just

like talk about how great Taiwanese food

is davines food is great

wow this is like hyping up before Thai

gets on stage but nothing was as crazy

as the rally last night where we were

walking through the crowd and suddenly

this giant ROC flag started coming

across the crowd and it was just heading

straight for us like people were kind of

just overhead like pushing it back so

we're walking forward and then it was

like there's no way people's ever

looking like okay I guess we're gonna be

part of this now you just duck and you

know what was it kind of had flashbacks

gym class did you ever do that like the

parachute thing you know yeah that that

reminds me of grace yes all right

anything else you wanted to say about

the disinformation we'll talk about it

more there's a lot of disinformation

involving traditional Taiwanese media

too but we can get into that yeah yeah

all right so to answer some questions

start asking us questions but first up

is Robert Hardy who donated $38 Hong

Kong Taiwan's democracy is exclusively

time these please don't call it Chinese

democracy like a last vid well that was

an ironic joke because the reason we

call that is the Chinese Communist Party

says Chinese people are not ready for

democracy and ethnically so Chris was

trying to troll the CCP yes but I think

you actually managed to troll a bunch of

people who were offended that you said

Chinese instead of Taiwanese yeah I need

to change my display setting on my phone

so while Chris's do that I wasn't doing


I will talk briefly but thank you for a

mission okay here we go okay what were

you gonna briefly talk about him I was

just gonna talk about the disinformation

the red media issue but okay carry on

okay so questions start sending up there

was a lot of trouble in Taiwan Taiwan

has a huge diverse like media market but

one of the problems is that there are a

lot of media that are either bought out

by taking over in different ways by the

Chinese Communist Party is so they call

these red media and there was like a big

rally over the summer protesting against

red media that got like hundreds of

thousands of people out into the streets

so this is a big problem for Taiwan so

what we're talking about with social

media disinformation it's kind of in a

way like just a extension of what

they're already doing with like

traditional mainstream media in Taiwan

so there's problems all around

right now we are at a rally for or we

are several hundred feet away from a

rally for the current Taiwanese

president's high and when and her party

the Democratic Progressive Party the DPP

tomorrow Saturday is Taiwan's

presidential elections so this is like

the last they're calling it like a super

rally last rally before the elections

and you can hear behind us there's a lot

of noise coming I think they're they're

they're hyping up the audience before

it's hi comes on stage

oh good air horns yep okay here's a

question from John Anderson TV how do

you think this election could impact

relations into the Pacific that's a big

issue because if for example Taiwan

votes KMT huncle you goods in office

that's really going to change how Taiwan

that's going to change the us Taiwan

relationship and that in turn will

greatly affect us policy in the

indo-pacific region if a friendly time

when these government comes in there

could be a total change in the us-china

relation we could get a lot closer it

could become a real barrier to Communist

Party's expansionism in the Pacific in

terms of friendlier sanguine the current

incumbent president her administration

has definitely been reaching out more

towards the us like for example Thai

called Donald Trump after his elect

and Donald Trump took the call which

like led to like a two-day freakout yeah

because that was the first time US

presidents president-elect had taken a

call from the president of Taiwan so

that was unprecedented I was on

President Ali so yeah and the Trump

administration has also been reaching

out more to Taiwan than any other

administration not just the Trump

administration but the US Congress as

well has passed the towel Travel Act

allowing like senior US officials travel

to Taiwan and also you know if they've

finally after four years or so sold

f-16s again to Taiwan so there's a lot

more friendly feeling towards Taiwan but

the US government in general which

definitely also has to do with what's

happening with china-us relations in

terms of the Pacific as well I would say

that Taiwan has had a bunch of these

Pacific island nations in the South

Pacific who were some of their only

remaining diplomatic allies that the

Chinese Communist Party has been

poaching one by one and if tang when

wins again I think that process is going

to going and maybe even speed up you

know they're trying to like get ripped

like isolate Taiwan by like buying off

all of their diplomatic allies basically


all right Disney Princess of Mars

interesting story but not a great movie

ask the real question is does it really

count if there's no tear gas I tell you

I were talking about this earlier we

definitely are having like Hong Kong

flashbacks of like being like a crowd of

people it's like oh they're able to do

this and there's no riot police shooting

at them it must be a nice change for the

Hong Kong protesters who are here as

well I mean they're still wearing masks

and I don't blame them yeah but what I

was interesting to me like I was taking

some photos on the crowd and some people

just wear masks for like air quality or

hygiene reasons

here so I was taking pictures of people

and then being like oh I don't have to

worry about blurring people's faces

because they're at a political rally

here in Taiwan like I don't have to

worry that somebody I take a photo of is

going to get arrested because of that

photo all right

I'm getting some messages about Bernie

Sanders being responsible for 9/11 I

don't think that's the right topic ah

let's see if we got one right there ah

sides i donated $2499 us and says

taiwan jo with the flexing arm emoji oh

well jo is like a chinese word for like

it means that oil that's like keep going

you're doing good

yeah hong kong year people say hong kong

jo during the protest they're saying

taiwan jo the DPP chant is actually

taiwan's who needs to win taiwan will

win but in english they've you know it

says let's win on all of their wanna be

criminal man you can do whatever you

want to do did you put your heart to it

ask do you know which way older

taiwanese lean taiwan is fairly aged in

the demographics of the elderly vote

matters a lot yeah voter chart elderly

or the older voter turnout in the last

election was something like eighty

percent 74 percent versus 58 percent for

people under from like 20 to 30 so yeah

voting age starts at 20 here but there

is a lot of older folk in who support

the DPP as well so even though the KMT

does tend to skew all

and EPP I don't really know exactly by

how much ya KMT voters tend to be older

they tend to turn out more reliably the

older voters because it is a little easy

here for the older voters to vote than

it is for the younger folks historically

in Taiwan there's been kind of a people

are asking yesterday if there's an urban

rural divide there it kind of is but it

actually manifests more as like a

north/south divide because Taipei the

biggest city the capital is in the north

and the southern areas have been

historically more DPP strongholds

actually have been changing yes so how

will you the KMT presidential candidate

he won a last year he won the mayor of a

city called Gao Xiang in southern Taiwan

that had been held by the DPP for 20

years was it last year now in 2018

remember it was it was it was it yeah it

was I know there were elections in 2018

where the DPP lost big and signing wing

actually stepped down as the chairwoman

of the DPP and that was kind of a sign

of life Oh

things are shifting back to the KMT

sanguine might not even get the

nomination for 2020 but things that

change Hong Kong protests did play a

part in that as well some other internal

thing yeah so I keep forgetting it's

2020 but what also was forgetting was

that he only served like as mayor for

six months before starting to run for

president which he said he was not going

to do so actually now there is a there

is a recall movement going on in gaúcho

to recall Huggle you as their mayor be

as people have gotten disgruntled at the

fact that he promised to come in and

like fix Kasia and then six months later

he's off trying to run for president so

very interesting okay we have some

donations I want to get to Martin

Peterson donated $100 100 new Taiwan

dollars says thanks for the great show

keep it up Jo thank you

all right then we have this one C bond

Kay thank you again donated $5 always

like your support which I want to be

part of an Asian NATO or would that be

too provocative with the CCP what about

putting a naval base in Taiwan also well

I'm not gonna read the last thing he

says I don't think that's an appropriate

thing to say no that is very good really

sad face let's give a big thank you for

Matt who's doing so much great work

behind the camera

he is currently where he belongs no come


oh that's looking at me no I love Matt

on camera you wanted to say hi on the

camera Matt Lita shakes that uh I don't

know hook so there's been a lot of talk

about doing an Asian NATO kind of thing

what I was gonna say that would be very

provocative it would be super duper

graphic as well as putting a naval base

entire yeah that would be there are like

degrees in that the US and Taiwan can

escalate their relationship but jumping

to that would be huge I mean like I mean

that like the US doesn't even recognize

Taiwan fully as a country there's no

ambassador technically there's no

ambassador so if you're not familiar

with how this works there are these like

Taiwanese cultural institutes in the

us that are their embassies and

consulates but we can't call them that

because we don't have official

diplomatic relations with Taiwan so

suddenly being like hey you're part of


would be skipping several steps yeah you

know this is the things that Taiwanese

people are asking for are things like

maybe the Taiwan military can join like

naval exercises that are going on with

the us that the us holds in the you

know Pacific Ocean with like South Korea

and Japan and India and stuff like that

so they're not asking to be part of Asia

NATO yet yeah let's see fixture in oxs

donated $5 Canadian House can Agent

Smith speaks like read Chinese well I

don't know about agent Smith but we've

never met agent that's true I can speak

and read a little bit of Chinese but

Shelly is our Chinese speaker although

I'm not very good at reading traditional

Chinese characters that's the moment I

want that's one of my goals for this

year is to get way better at reading

traditional Chinese and so when we eat

go out to eat it's somewhat of a

crapshoot all right let's see what else

we have here

oh and just just started else if you are

in Taiwan we are having a fan meetup on

Sunday we have a video up with the

details I also posted about it on the

China uncensored Instagram and Twitter

and Shelley retweeted as well by the way

definitely follow Shelley on Twitter

she's getting a lot of great stuff out

there that like I don't always have time

to social media myself my twitter handle

is at shell john sh e lzh AMG Metta

Tegra says support Hong Kong from Canada

that's great it's from Canada okay yeah

sorry oh we're a little tired

we are multi Grove donated 250

Australian what's the difference between

the KMT and DPP the biggest difference

is how they view China the KMT

ironically being extension of the

roaming dong that fought the Chinese

commies party and lost and had to

retreat to Taiwan the first place tends

to lean more towards does now does

unification and that's a broad thing

that just kind of means some kind of

working relationship with Chinese like

unification some people think like

eventually maybe we'll unify the town

again originally the KMT wanted to of

course retake the mainland but that's

probably looking less and less likely

but they are now kind of more Pro China

a lot of ways pro-china business PI's

economic develop that's one difference

whereas the DPP the Democratic

commercial parties started off as more

like Taiwan originally there were Taiwan

independence but now their position is

more like status quo Taiwan sovereignty

like we are a country so we don't have

to say we're independent we don't have

to declare independence but you know we

don't need to just like have closer ties

with China we should you know have

closer ties with other countries and we

should even Tanglin kind of went a

little bit of a step further and said we

don't necessarily agree with the idea

that there's only one China which was

called the 1992 consensus so there's

there's definitely a range of different

things and like even younger Taiwanese

people what's happening is more and more

people are intent identifying as

Taiwanese and not Chinese like the

person who is upset the people who are

upset that I call the last live Chinese

democracy when that should be Taiwanese

democracy so that's a sore point for

some people I mean I can understand

because it kind of like there is a

certain amount of erasure going on like

so that like if you talk if you don't

talk about Taiwanese or Taiwan then

you're kind of then the feeling is

you're kind of buying more into the

Chinese Communist Party's propaganda

about China one China and all this stuff

so it's like Chris said touching yeah TK

two eight eight seven asked how good are

the noodles in Taiwan actually pretty

good it seems there's a lot of dishes in

Taiwan that are based on the idea of you

have noodles or rice and some meat

flavoring on it not even like not actual

meat just like meat sauce

no there's meat it's just like little

bits of meat and we ever that kind of

made us realize it you know

there was a time when this was this

country was a little more hard off and

it's today and I said country too so

that's a touchy so come on was that mad

okay all right so we'll probably start

wrapping it up soon maybe just one or

two more questions let me know if you

see any yeah yes we're doing a thing

right now

oh yeah Hey look at that oh thanks

thanks so much ah let's see it was

pretty sweet earlier because Chris kind

of sands out since he's like a white guy

wearing a suit with the beard pushing

his way through the crowd of Taiwanese

people and this older couple always like

where are you from what do you do and

then they didn't want it to gift Chris a

flag that said one of the little like

campaign flags that said Taiwan let's

win on it I'm a terrible multitasker by

the way sauce Rin donated $1499

Australian do you think that there will

be gifts and red envelopes given to the

older voters that support the party that

is closer ties with CCP like what

happened in Hong Kong

well again the kmt's whole thing is like

we need to have closer ties with China

for economic development I think he's

asking if people's boats are gonna be

box well if this is what I'm getting at

in a way it is the promise of money that

is getting these boats if there's going

to be actual bribery I don't think that

would be enough or really I don't think

I haven't heard anything about that

myself that might be a little bit of a

problem being that Taiwan recently

passed an anti infiltration law which

and carry like a maximum penalty of life

in prison no that's for

if we're like espionage yes part of it

but there there are consequences for

taking money and then from a foreign

power and then doing something political

because you've been given that moment so

probably they're not going to be

outright red envelopes but it is the

economics I mean what kind will you the

KMT candidate has kept saying is like

let's get rich you know let's make money

so that's his promise in terms of like

if he gets elected president you know

closer economic ties with China which

will make us already think of the

children the children in their future

they need the money

Momo Momo donated a buck 99 says hello

love from Hong Kong thank you and love

back to Hong Kong you guys I just saw

there was like a report that came out to

like so many people are suffering from

like PTSD it's just really not grace I

feels so so bad for everyone in Hong

Kong last last question let's see if I

can find the question


well I think we'll call that a wrap

tonight again we will be doing a live

broadcast tomorrow during the election

tune in for that will be mosquitoes yeah

that'll be a lot of fun and I also just

want to say thank you to Matt who is

doing such a great job organizing us and

holding the camera and I really do

treasure and value camera decorating his

team okay hopefully I'll be here

tomorrow for the next broadcast

otherwise it might just be man Shelly

love you guys thanks for watching we'll

see you next time thanks for watching

thanks for watching

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