Kava | Brian Kerr | CDP platform | stablecoin | BlockchainBrad | DeFi | Cosmos SDK | Tendermint

by birtanpublished on August 24, 2020

hello it's Brad glory or blockchain brat and today we're talking about all things cava and we had the CEO in the hot seat right now his name is Brian Kerr Brian thank you very much and give me an exclusive update into all that Carver is

Doing right now yeah thank you for having me Brad I'm really excited to be here and sort of kind of everything both in the the minutia and in the grand scheme of conv what we're doing and let everyone know I I mean I'm really

Grateful also for your time I do know that you're busy and there is no better source than the CEO so for all those wondering this is entirely free there's absolutely no payment no sponsorship no you know under under the table deals

Going on this is about information from cover for all of us to better understand what their plan is and what they're actually doing technologically to drive you know innovation in a defy sector now I mentioned defy Brian let's go into

This a bit more mate on your website in your information it's very clear that your defy for crypto you know can we dig deep into that what is kind of represent in that context and what you're really trying to do sure let's first just say

What it is defy is like the the meme of the year and we use that as a marketing positioning because all of what we were doing just fall into the category of trustless lending and other dphi services but what cava really is is a

Cross chain lending and stable coin platform for major cryptocurrencies okay now for those who are wondering you're perhaps a new to crypto cross chain obviously enables for more than just one chain give us a rundown on who you're

Talking about or which chains when it comes to the cross chain capacity sure we're we're focusing so we've built cava the platform to be a generalize platform that can add in a number of assets and we built on the cosmos SDK which makes

Connections with other block chains much easier than it would be otherwise but the assets that we're starting with our Bitcoin XRP Finance with B & B and Adam mm-hmm okay then once those are set up by us then everything else will

Beyond a like a community basis of what we adopt so let's say you know Bitcoin cash comes and a bridge is built for Bitcoin cash to move into our platform our community would vote on if they want that asset to be supported and offered

EFI services to them and if it passes then that would be added got up so essentially mate you're an agnostic lending platform you know you offer that those services in the financial sector what and you mentioned also importantly

That you're working with cosmos specifically and how to look at your advisors and there's even cosmos reps there so what made you choose cosmos what made you choose their SDK specifically yeah so maybe I should

Start with how can I get started we only launched our blockchain and the concept of what cava is in June of this year but our company has been around for over two years and we've been building in the space primarily as a research and

Development firm focused on interoperability and even from the early days we believed that the attendant consensus was one of the most ideal trade-offs between decentralization and throughput and security yeah I would

Agree with that yeah and well there are trade-offs I do you think as a blockchain developer using the cosmos SDK which uses the tenement consensus is one of the fastest ways to get started and you like for us we're not consensus

Experts so but I had no means were we trying to build out ourselves that wasn't our difference here that we're trying to offer to the world what we were trying to build was a great collateralized debt position system to

Offer Defy services – and what the cosmos SDK allows us to do is just launch a blockchain with the tender mint consensus and build a very scoped us Marc contracting module just for our use case and it allows us to set the

Parameters to choose the exact security model we want to make all the incentives work for for our particular use case those attributes were just super nice using the cosmos SDK and then just as a another shield for it for cosmos we

Really we've done a bunch of development on etherium we've built payment channels for Ford I and East's and we did integrations in wallets and other things developing on aetherium is a horrible experience as a

Developer and it's because writing a solidity is troublesome using the test nets or troublesome they don't quite match the main net sometimes if you can build code that is supposed to run on a testament that is a hundred percent

Match to the the main net and it might work on the test net but then when you move it to to mean that it doesn't work for some reason just like very frustrating so you've tried that's been trial and error from the team obviously

From what you yeah well we've been developing and researching for you know more than two years in crypto and it's always been focused on sort of cross chain activities and it's like well we could build the system on on other black

Chains it was just the easiest to execute in and meet all the requirements that we had using the cosmos SDK from a development standpoint one more one more things right it got fan by it but it's just as a developer it's much

Better to develop and something like go as write and obviously as you know many of these different platforms that exists now as layer one solutions do offer a lot more than one programming language to interact and work with for developers

For example or for those who are writing in code now if we move back before to a discussion of being agnostic what is what I found fascinating also is that you really wanted to focus on those technologies that were perhaps leading

The way now cosmos is what is one of them arguably and very much associated with the web three as they call it so in terms of the future how are you looking at things like centralization versus

Decentralization as an issue because when you look at Byzantine fault tolerance for example you know low numbers of nodes in consensus we obviously want to see things change so that we see an outcome that it's more

Interested in decentralized by design so are you look exploring that possibility in the future as well so one of our core areas of emphasis is to create the trustless system of what exists in the traditional financial

World but here with software and one of the main ways that we can do that is through blockchain to and I think by definition that has to be done in a decentralized way if there's one node operator who can do controls

All the code or one interface that controls all the user experiences it defeats the underlying with premise of what watching is trying to solve and what we're trying to accomplish so for us it's a it's a huge issue to make sure

That we have a large group of actors supporting our network and running the notes for comment got it so anything in the pipeline in terms of expansion you know in terms of them any other block chains that maybe onboarding or

Utilizing the carbon technology Oh like in terms of like do we prioritize trust lessness in the assets that we pull in well in the sense of you know you mentioned some key ones like the key protocols line amosmoss but any that we

Don't know about that haven't been yet you know publicized that you're going to also interact with work with to essentially expand the reach of Carver yeah so I think one of the the important considerations for us is like the kaabah

Platform doesn't necessarily care if the assets themselves are fully trust us for example the by Nance chain is not a hundred percent open source today right now finance in a small group of nodes controls a lot of that but from our

Point of view the by nana the token itself is still a very good asset to be used as collateral there's a lot of users that use it and it's very liquid so in terms of crypto assets that we can use as collateral its quality is quite

High a similar with XRP right there's a you can argue with how centralized or decentralized XRP is but no one is going to argue that it's not a good very liquid asset with many users so in that regard

You know if XRP doesn't have access to lending or stable coins that are backed by XRP finance doesn't as well tamo is like the ideal platform that can offer that but then the stable coins that we're delivering are completely trust

'less no one want rolls the system that those stable coins are running on I say I do want to talk to you about you know especially several coins later and any of the assets that you're offering it's clear also you know given that you're

Working with some of these names you mentioned that quiddity is a big focus do you think that's part of the imperative you know right now especially when we see relatively you know a stale market right

Now but not a lot of movement although in inflow in terms of investment certainly not an institutional sector do you think it's you know really really behoove startups to make sure they have strong liquidity I'll attack I'll attack

That question in two different ways okay and the first is I one of our main drivers of kava and choosing to do this as a product was we realized that won't the issues of growing in the crypto market and gaming adoption and if we

Just call it like circulating market cap was currently it's limited by Fiat unwraps whether they be the retail exchanges or OTC desks or whatever if that is the limiting factor of what grows it crypto is kind of destined for

A slow ascent at best but if we can actually use crypto assets as collateral to then create loans and stable coins on top of that effectively have hard cash and then build a credit layer on top which is what these loans are we can

Actually use a cup dress that's to grow the market cap through the loans which are also cryptocurrencies so as we issue more of our stable coin were actually growing the total cap out of crypto and we believe that's a very

Core underlying primitive that needs to exist for all of cryptid to do well because we're limited just by on on fiat on ramps got a and Brian it's really well said because really what you're saying is beyond liquidity it's all

About that use you know it should you know back map from use into liquidity by know mother nature of demand you know from the broader market and obviously spend beyond the crypto circle that we see right now so that people are looking

For new innovative products so let's talk about that a bit about a bit a bit more Brian CVP platform you know can you just clarify that before we move on to some of the products specifically what does

It refer to what does this mean you know what's it all about yeah sure so the the CD P stands for collateralized debt position and effectively just think of it as like a bank account where you stick funds in and based on that that's

Your total collateral amount that you can then off of and how the system works is unlocking the traditional market where you might have you know a fraction of collateral for your loan amount and says

Like fractional lending everything has to be over collateralized in this use case so it's much more like a reverse mortgage where you have a big asset that you stick on top but then you're able to take the loan off of that and use it to

Spend if you need to for different use cases whether that be for cash flow purposes for payments and I think for crypto today the primary use case is speculation trading so what people would want to do you know with taking their

Bitcoin and receiving a loan off of that they would use that loan to buy more Bitcoin and get a levered long position Bitcoin so in this sense you know when we see the likes of terror and suggestions are all you know sometimes

Even allegations that there's some issues there where they don't have any have anything real backing you know that their own so-called stable Queen you ever consider you're concerned at all about the fragility of the market in

That respect or making sure things are properly backed so that in the as you move forward as a startup and as a successful company hopefully in the future that their credibility of the backers and other backing is still

Strong and true yeah I think that's something that defy generally is trying to address or in traditional markets even with big financial institutions ultimately they're all based on credit relationships and trust between them you

Know each counterparty is going to pay the debts that are owed and all the big financial crises have resulted from these trusted relationships failing in one way or another so with a platform like cava or any

Other defy platform sort of being built they're really trying to solve that settlement between counterparties and removing that risk altogether and what's beautiful about cava CDP's they're very similar to like the CDOs back in 2008

Where a lot of those lacks transparency they lacked you know visibility into what the underlying assets were and what that risk profiles were actually and they were actually rated wrong due to the lack of transparency

In this we're all saying the big short we've all seen yes exactly so so with cava everything is a 100 transparent of what assets live within each CDP where they are it's all visible on the block explore on the user interfaces and you

Can then check that based on those native assets block explores as well like is that Bitcoin effectively locked up in like it's been said is XRP escrowed are all those assets really there and are they you know actually

Then in terms of lytic risk so the people who are governing cava can make the right decisions if you don't have that transparency you have is very hard to trust that everything's working in a good and I think it's what's beautiful

Here's I don't think we can ever run into the same issues as like what happening in 2008 you might you write such a good point it was often a misunderstanding about blockchain in terms of you know one of those key

Assets was its transparency back in the day when you know the cyberpunk movement of you know 2000 and you know 10-ish was all about trying to circumvent arguably you know contemporary powers you know those bogged down now we see that

Actually as you're saying the transparency from value proposition is real in terms of credibility checking not just also from you know fraud governance and good also for the consumer you know there can be a bit of

A you know a window into the truth of how things operate by default because of the beauty of blockchain if we talk about some of your fundamental assets for a moment and your plans some of the things that you are looking towards are

Things like multi collateral depositions you know we discussed them with some of the assets and there's more to come but also self issued loans the value of that in terms of no car no counterparty requisites there and also the stable

Coins when I talk about those two things in detail because there are some of the things that you're really going to focus on that I mentioned you know for part of you know the products that you offer mm-hmm yeah so let's break each each

Part down and I think the important thing that might not be clear in all of our marketing materials is our multi collateral CDP system is what we're starting with we're not starting with just one asset and then stable coins off

That asset or systems designed to handle the multiple assets from the very beginning and that's very different compared to something like maker gal which went through a period where it was just

Single collateral die backed by a single asset the imaginations are very different and the governance levers that the thus takers how old and Kaba are very different than what the maker Dow had for example to

Manage stability fees in the single case which ran away from them and they weren't able to control them yeah and there's also best engineering or not they're multi collateral approach will actually work long term no I'm not happy

A lot of economists are even exploring that right now I mean obviously good luck to them because a lot of people do support you know what they're indifferent swell but moving back to you right from the outset your agenda was

Always multi collateral right no and that's our system design is design that way and it's because it made sense to us that as effectively what we're building is almost like a central bank of crypto and while we can have many many

Shareholders of it the functions are still the same and that's to manage the collateral there that it's managing and then also to limit the risk of the circulating supply as a stable coins in our case for how much assets the system

Is managing based on the underlying collateral so the debt to collateral ratio and the goals are of the system is basically chasing a moving target given different market scenarios and given different environmental factors like

What types of collateral are in the system how much has been issued in terms of loans different tweaks have to be made to make sure stability it's maintained and risk is properly managed so for us it's about giving the

Governance group all the different levers that you would expect a central bank to have so I'm just interest rate how much in terms of liquid assets or cash does it have the ability to issue or debt be able to issue does it have

Any in terms of like inflation rates does that need adjustment and basically all the key parameters they have multiple levers to pull to make sure things are in balance and it needs to be actively managed rather than passively

Managed and it makes me wonder also given that you're really trying to architect a new sort of financial platform that is underpinning that is changing seriously you know our Cape potentially financial paradigms I

Wonder you know what what attention you're getting from the top down especially in a US for example when in many respects know the banking structure and system is directly correlated with their own economy so do you think that

You're part of the new narrative and that perhaps you know this time that the powers that try and regulate their own economy are actually going to become a little bit more fearful perhaps of autonomous entities emerging now that

Are actually going to potentially change financial outcomes so given that so a few things about kava the first is we're actually part of a group called the proof of stake Alliance which is a lobbying group here within the US that's

Speaking directly with the SEC the IRS with the CFTC and it's around creating regulatory frameworks to help them think about this right I would say that they're they're fearful because they have the most to

Lose with dollar hegemony that exists in the world today but the same time they're trying to cultivate innovation and they're very open to all the the conversations that we're having with them so some of the in the the key

Focuses of posa is to create frameworks for how they should think about multi oaken's that are staking based and in in terms of all those different agencies and how they regulate them how to treat validation

Rewards or staking rewards are those ordinary income or they long-term income what is the relationship between a delegator and a delegator one of any of them many service businesses that need be it regulated by FinCEN like just

Answering very basic questions that I think everyone needs to have answers to but ultimately I would say that they it's less fear and more trying to make as fast progress as they can while remaining safe that's good that's good

News to hear firstly that you are consulting you know with them and then there's the new liaison at the very least and also that they're open minded in the sense that they're trying to understand and grapple with the gravity

Of this transformation and change but I wanted to ask you specifically on and on the point of stable points because obviously going to talk about this more but there has been suggestions at the very least coming

From those parties specialist SEC where they're you know they're wondering are these actually securities I've waited that's ridiculous because you know they don't function like a security at all but I wanted to know

What your thoughts are on this idea I think so is a stable point of security I'm not curious lawyer so I can't really answer that truthfully from any place of real knowledge so I will I can only speculate on how I understand them but

You know take this as no no means any type of legal advice show I think stable points generally are not securities however the what they can and what seems to be more clear is that any business is operating with a stable coin is likely a

Money service business there are saving funds from one party and creating something that sort of looks like a duck quacks like a duck and acts like a duck so it must be a duck it's like in this case it must be a stable coin must be

Still a US dollar and they should have the same regulations attached and I think that's probably a fair thing the crypto industry doesn't want to hear that of course because stop some of the nice crypto the crypto exchanges and

Sort of them staying away from fiat and getting all the regulations that come with it but I think in terms of their logic that they thought about that that's real and in terms of the security is a stable

Kind of security mile answer that's probably not but there are cases where it does take on some security like features so for example in our system we we provide a savings rate based on our stable coin so someone can bond a stable

Coin itself and get a savings rate from that well there's no counterparty that they're receiving sort of that work from in our system but if it is a centralized system that's giving them a return based on bonding of a stable coin that's not

Really a stable quin anymore as much as it's like a bond or like a financial instrument which is the definition of security it's like it morphs you know based on you know how it's used into a different asset

Class but when it goes back to the stable coin I think you know one thing that is clear from you is that you're Pro regulation you know you want clarity of classification so that really you can accelerate you know in terms of your own

Platform yeah and we're very hesitant to do anything within the US right now we have not sold any tokens to people within the US we aren't pursuing us listings at the time being and we would only enter the u.s.

Once we believe that we have a very strong case as the utility that there's no risk of it being deemed as security and us or any other token holders being penalized for for using the system I do think that we have a very strong case we

Have a in terms of life legal memos from us lawyers seems to be you know very strong on the utility side all my conversations directly with people at the SEC which I've taken directly myself as well as through through post so we're

Speaking of them I think we have strong cases there but it's still a great area until they produce some type of framework that we could apply to our jargon or anything and Brian I really really appreciate his transparency with

Regard to you basically putting up a wall between carbon and the US for now obviously that you know will change in time based on you know all the efforts that you're all doing you know in that mutual sense but you know just to make

Sure that you can operate legitimately now you're making sure that there's no muddy waters when it comes to what you can and can't do I think that's very prudent but if we go back now to your your products where

You're focused again that the creating a stable coin looking at loans issued in specific stable ones as well can you talk us and talk to us about you know why is you know want to focus in this area especially given that you know the

Number one asset right now digital asset is actually a stable coin in terms of utility yeah well it goes back to that fundamental we believe that crypto needs to be able to create credit on top of that and because the primary use case of

Crypto today is trading and speculation a platform like what office building allows people to both lever up our positions while also giving a stable point to hedge in case they believe the markets are going down so regardless of

What the markets are doing we give traders the tools that they need to do that and and to play appropriately right we're not gonna beat around the bush and say that we have the the golden solution or the the great use case that's going

To redefine crypto I think what was clear out of the the winters that happened you know a little over a year ago was that most of the use cases people thought they had weren't actually true and yeah the only things that

Really did succeed were the exchanges the service providers or they said people providing layers of ways that people did use crypto today and we actually do our research found it wasn't really even payments to some extent like

That still very infant and in terms of the crypto industry and the only thing that was really being used industry-wide and it was very obvious was was for trading in speculation so plain that the tactic that was run anyway directions

Anytime soon no it's certainly there to stay but if we talked about you for a moment one of the things we talked about earlier was that you're use driven so give us some empirical you know proof give us an update at the very least as

Where you are at right now in terms of the use usage plan you're in the road now so because obviously you as I said you've been here for a few years building Kaba but you know what's the roadmap in terms of really showcasing

That you are doing sure so I'll take it back to June where we started and this is when we did our announcement saying hey here's cava this is what we're doing from there we had hundreds of validated organizations not hundreds but hundred

Plus validator organizations come and support a series of tests that we ran tests that's one thousand two thousand and three thousand those all were successful and then we did our finance IO shortly after and following finances

I/o which was a depth to token so I was like a placeholder token that everyone received the main net was launched roughly three weeks following that so that was just a few weeks ago to today's time and the

Main net features staking and governance and all the the pieces required to vote on different parameter changes or proposed updates to the network but it doesn't include the CDP module itself so the the main net token that's and

Actually is going through a vote process right now to enable transactions which will allow tokens to transfer from one address to another meaning tokens can flow from our blockchain to a finance address to be traded in vice-versa one

From finance to the blockchain to be staked and that should pass I think on December 2nd so a few days from today but by the end of the year we'll be releasing the CDP module test net where people can start playing around with

What it's like to interface with this thing to put assets from a different test net like et CSS net or X or piece tests or finance or add them onto ours use it in the CDP modules see how the leverage and hedging mechanisms work see

If the price feeds work and we'll have buy a big promotional campaign around like basically try to game this thing try to and find places where there could be you know issues and then a month maybe a month and a half from there then

We'll be pushing that more in the main that direction and the first assets they'll be supported will be Adam and and BMP I say and what's interesting now is that people are already talking about cava and you're not even near fifth gear

That's the reality and we're not trying to hype this discussion obviously but that's the truth is that you're not yet you know in that period of time where you had that CDP main you know operating you know this is just phase what phase

One yes it's scary when there's so much attention on you I think finances it we definitely went from like 0 to 60 at the moment we were went from being like a a just launched thing to tens of thousands of people had cava tokens in their

Council on Finance and everyone's paying attention to us it was it was a very different just mode of operating a company period when you go from being sort of pre-launch to to launch where there's

Real users that that care but I do think that we have a lot of expectations and we need to deliver on them thankfully I think we're on track so far and what's great also is that when we're talking about V fiying or finance more broadly

Is that literally the participants in the crypto space can be those users you don't need those parties to go and shield to another party they literally can be part of the conversation of applications usage and usage proof so

You know do you guys have any forecasts or any of any planning that you put out for targets more importantly of what you want to achieve in terms of numbers related to use and users I think it's really hard to see today but you do make

A great point that does play into our strategy the reason why we thought a bi Nance I yo was the right approach was not because we need to raise money I think I use generally are not the best Pat's raising money it's better to do

That through private rounds and ground but Finance is a great marketing platform and distribution platform particularly with our direct users that we want to have on our platform in the future so it was just like the perfect

Launch partner to do this with because we're traders and speculators well their own violence and I think for us going forward it's about finding new things new partners like that whether they are exchanges or you know things like

Insta-death going forward where our users can potentially live and using them to bring into our communities and how we think about growth is with each asset that we onboard into this support into the CDP platform

We expand the user base or the audience that we can talk to so if we look at maker Dow with the cerium for example they have roughly 2% of eath blocked up if we just use that as as a metric for BTC or XRP or finance each asset that we

Add if we can get like you know 1 or 2% that's a better audience I think we're doing a very very good job that took maker a long time to do in the theorem community and it was the only option I think will be the only option for these

Assets so maybe I'll go faster than I think but I'm usually if the the bearish mentality right I choose the sort of the lowest bar in terms of my expectations of ourselves yeah exactly I'm not gonna you know try to pump it up

Super hard so I like we have to support the first assets adamant and B&B and see how they go and I think from there we can actually create accurate forecasts on the other assets and what's interesting also is that not only are

You obviously planning out a significant media strategy to complement the real tech and the real plan you have and the real utility but also you're working with many prominent communities not just the chains themselves who also you know

Have christopher reciprocal you know a mutual Association they're also going to be perhaps spreading the narrative spreading the word spreading the value that you offer so that's only going to be good to you in the future I'd imagine

Yeah it's whether you're a traditional product or a financial product like ours or crypto generally it's all about having attention economy and the interesting thing about an attack economy versus other things is that

Direct competition for say like the more partnerships it's almost like a Instagram influencers right if one Instagram influencer can do a promotion or work with another Instagram influencers they actually share their

Audiences together and they both grow like similar here it'll be that for for our audience and any other crypto audience that we work with although I am hesitant to see how the XRP army responds to be very strong at

The start but you know once you have them you can't get rid of them they're just like yeah sorry just also will hesitant to do something like letting or something if we ever just support channeling the the link means also a bit

Scary so it's like will inherit these audiences over time and you know we'll just have to do our best to make sure you know I wish you luck because you know these guys are very emotive as you know and they die hard when it comes to

Supporting much like sport really that's how I see this player you know they're choosing their team and then going for it but the great thing is you are agnostic you know and they perhaps you know will

Be a little bit when it comes to supporting you but the support is the key point now in terms of the process one to ask about how karma works in context from deposit all the way through in that continuum can you

Give us a bit of a quick rundown for those who are thinking about you know the benefits wanting to engage more but perhaps don't understand you know what they need to do in terms of steps hmm sure so our main value proposition is

That you can custom assets and interact with the software and receive loans without needing some other counterparty like an exchange to do this margin trade or what have you so the the first step here is take your hardware wallet and

Plug it in so you have access let's take a letter as an example because you can use Coppa with the ledger you would connect that open up the CDP interface or the platform interface and say I want to deposit some crypto asset let's use

Btc-e as an example you would take BTC from your Hardware wallet send it to the address on the the CDP interface it provides some some address there and then it would be effectively escrowed once that's complete so if you locked up

It's still yours it's still in your control but you just can't withdraw it unless you're all your debt has been repaid got up so in the vault bicycle in vaults account whatever I don't like vault because volt means it's safe

Well it's safe from a custody perspective I think it's much more accurate to describe this as a margin account okay if you take out a bunch of you know Oh loan and the price of your collateral drops forever reason BTC

Price crashes there is risk that your assets can get liquidate on the market to make sure it's balanced with your loan amount so in that regard it's just a case actually with traditional thank you also it's nothing new yeah yeah I

Don't yeah so anyway in that regard I don't like vault because vault yes it's like station isn't good yeah but my apologies yeah what I well IA maker uses it so it's a it's a find I think it's a fine word it just might not accurately

Describe all the risks would like to be transparent with those risks yes I think margin account kiss may be the better word we'll probably come up with some other term for it as we develop more collateral and marketing

Materials around this but let's call it a margin account for that for the time being some dollar amount of crypto is price there since you'll be drawing the loan in stable coins pegged in u.s. dollar so let's say BTC is priced it

Eight eight thousand dollars at eight thousand dollars you deposit $100 worth of BTC you can withdraw some amount of loan less than that so each asset that you use will have a different debt to collateral ratio based on its risk and

BTC you might have something like 150 percent over collateralized as a requirement and maybe an asset that is more stable whether it be gold or a stable point itself maybe it's only 110 percent but depending on its profile it

Will have a different debt to collateral ratio some shit coin it could be you know 200% 300% whatever and then Fatah I don't think will ever support clams but your class is a bit too risky but you know maybe that's like relative

According to peers you know and is that likely to always be something that is based on your right to change that model as well it is based on the so the hundred validators are all the stagers who have a vote in this system they can

Constantly maintain and update these parameters based on what they think is needed to make sure everything's working and well balanced yeah and does it concern you if you increase the number of validators for example does that add

One layer of complexity in terms of making these some of these hard decisions because obviously we all advocating for increasing decentralization increasing distribution which is the complete antithesis of what

We had today that's why we want to change that scenario but implied in this transition there's some complexities when it comes to consensus yeah yeah so for us actually in our one of our test Nets we increased our valide account

From one hundred two hundred fifty just that parameter change see what it would be like of course there is some loss of throughput and for our particular system throughput isn't our primary concern so we might increase the validator count

More to increase our decentralization but I think it really depends I think for the foreseeable future it'll be a hundred it's still you know fairly decentralized but I think in the ideal case we would probably want to get to

300 our time but how fast we do that I think is still TBD got a net still a lot more than almost you know all out there are a lot out there and we move back to that process as well Brian did you want to add more into you know how people can

Essentially then work through the steps because you would destroy yeah yeah so once their assets are in they indicate how much Sloane they want to receive and they just you know slight a scale I want to receive this much loan and then the

System prints mintz us DX is what we're calling it that's the ticker it prints that amount of us DX directly into their account and then they can freely use that however they want they can send it to a friend they can buy more Bitcoin

With it and then when they want to use their collateral that's a system again all they have to do is get that amount of loan that they receive from it repay it pay a stability feet in the cava token itself so they need a little bit

Of cava to do that and then with that being paid then all their collaterals release back to them and they can use that freely from that grower okay now he's a tough question it's a bit philosophical but bear with me now

Because you know one of the key assets it's going to really drive the success for the first unit for the first phase is this stable call you mentioned you know it's fundamental really to the user essentially reaping the benefits of

Kannamma given that we hear the all these narratives about what constitutes good money we hear andreas talk about it we know exactly now those in the crypto space how important it is to have something that perhaps is not

Necessarily what they would call bad base money you know something that isn't peg to anything they cancel you know in it can inflate it's really good holdin to nothing it's no longer pegged to gold and the entity themselves the government

In this case can print whatever they want whenever suits for quantitative easing so does that concern you at all given that essentially a stable point you know works in that way because it is pegged

You mean because it's pegged to some fiat money which don't buy inflated anytime exactly so our system can be designed and and point to any asset it could be the Turkish lira it could even be synthetic BTC and that

These CDP's are creating so it's really just a system create any synthetic and I think it really won't be following user demand more than our owns philosophies here right so if people believe that USD is no longer a good asset to hold and it

Doesn't serve the purposes we might support something else or I for example since I mentioned in Turkish lira if that's an asset that people to normally use that for payments one but they don't have access to a positive yielding bond

Market for their asset they can actually hold our stable coins still receive a savings rate denominated in Turkish lira which would be a way to get a positive yield on that stable asset I said it could be like a utility there and some

Of like DTC it's like you get positive yield on BTC that seems great if you create synthetic PCC in fondant for some period of time so those are all directions we could expand into but our core focus is USD because I think it's

Very clear that the world prices most links in USD today and until the world loses faith in USD or has demand for other things will probably be sticking on that so it's really a pragmatic approach you know you are in every way

Impartial to you know sort of that emotive sort of attachment to certain digital assets for example and really it's about just taking gun and taking the process of okay what is going to be most likely used today and then follow

Suit you know as demand perhaps changes in the future so it's interesting I think that's actually a core philosophy or a company that maybe we should house more publicly we started as I said as a research firm focused on crypto payments

Or cross-chain settlement and when we just realized that there and a good volume of crypto payments happening in the world we decide to build for what the industry wants today which is better tools to to trade trade

With to leverage and to speculate with and similarly I think through everything that we do is we're following sort of what does the market want and build for that where we try to be as attune to our customer base as we can and we're not

Going to be caught up in our own dogmas actually I personally have a Bitcoin maximalist I like kava because I can go long Bitcoin I didn't know it is I do think that Quinn's the sort of the best script asset in the world because it's

The most liquid I'm a if anything I'm actually not Bitcoin maximalist as much as I'm a liquidity Maximus I think anything that is liquidity is like last week well I said you're saying that Brian considering that you know you're

Focused on cross-chain capabilities as well there's also tokens represent aside perhaps your Bitcoin er you know in terms of right now it's King when it comes to liquidity right right well once again it's like if you know USD T is one

Of the most liquid things around I'm a huge fan of USD t even though people might you know sort of scoff at its decentralization or other features I think it's super useful just because it's one of the most liquid things out

There right and makes a little sense now he spoke of way you know just briefly we're referring to your team does the team have all the skills it needs to continue for because you did pivot from the original premise to really build out

The defy agenda and and because you use use focused but you know are you expanding the team are you building the team and what are the key skill set so you offer to make sure we know you can do this yeah I mean so here's here's

Something that people might see from our website but our team is actually very very small now we've been the sort of same core team of roughly six people since you know multiple years ago and it consists of myself and I'm more of an

Entrepreneur and generalists I create an eSports company before that now I want the largest in the industry and there and then I drove into crypto shortly following and my partner Scott is also an

Entrepreneur but used to be a professional poker player a very analytical guy who heads up our product and then we have two core engineers that do a lot of the building on the the settlement and building the blockchain

Side of things but I think outside of the parkour team the reason why we've been successful outside of we have a nice group of fairly talented individuals is actually a lot of the building has been done by our community

We led this by announcing you know this is our plan we're gonna build this multi collateral CDP system on cosmos and just few days later we had imbalance of you know 30 plus different organizations of also three to ten man teams that were

Big fans of sort of this station and they got to work both operating nodes as our validators but also building things like flock explorers and basically they're doing a lot of development whether it be a mobile wallet a CVP

Scanner or whatever it is like they're actually adding a lot more of the but like this group of um you know our extended community is adding way more value than the core team it's so and I think that's gonna continue going

Forward because that's in third it is centralized development as well it is like I don't see how our goal is kind of being the top dog you is gonna you know control the whole thing I think it's our job to present ourselves as a leader and

As long as people are willing to follow us but we'll continue to be in that role but it's really about empowering everyone else to make this into a platform that they want to use and I think it's through that we can decide

What assets to support how we want to be fault or for time and in terms of Cobo labs our job was to get this thing out there which we have done it's not a public chain and now it's just our goal to be sort of like the chairman or the

The facilitator of conversations to help this thing progressed going absolutely might say you know you're guarding away really and I know I would suspect even their very nature of CEOs like you like you will perhaps change in time because

Gradually you know you won't have necessarily the same role you know that may change despite the needed imperative of having someone lead it out now your advice is on diocese tential as well I want to

Talk about and they also almost outnumber your team now you have blood I'm like sorry go ahead I was before we jump into the the advisors I did just want to comment on your question of like how how are we

Planning to grow our team and our capabilities from where we are today show and because we jumped into this defy world what was very clear from us from a data perspective is that the primary users of defy are in Asia so one

Of our core initiatives that we've already started it is we've started building up an office in Shanghai where we currently have like a head of PD and a marketing manager there and we're gonna continue to build that out just

Because China is actually our number one market people think you know I'm from the US and my co-founders from the US that Western places will be our core market but that's actually not true Asia is really our core market with

China being first maybe a combination of Russia and Korea being second and other places like Hong Kong and Singapore also leading the way in terms of the the capital and the participation that they would have a system like this and

Western for the global Western world is something that of course we address because that's just a requirement but in terms of usage I would say it's like 80 percent coming from Asia today and that's a really good point you raise

Because I have to admit I even thought you know given your position given you know the Association the partners for example that there would have been a lot more interest you know in the a in the western regions for example so very

Clear clarification that you're very much the first step is to enter into that Asian space you know into that market where many many instances the regions are quite progressive or even countries in terms of blockchain in

Terms of potential we don't necessarily know what the stance is perhaps for example China in the future with crypto what we do know is that there's a lot of attention you know Asia right now and unless there's a lot of wait just more

Generally when it comes to the overall market a lot of the money's there mm-hmm yeah and I would just say like the partners that we chose from the early stages like SNC holding which is based in Shanghai they're one of the groups

That first translated like the etherium white paper brought vitalik her and started really spreading the gospel of what a cerium was they were kind of like the core folks behind that they're also the core folks behind

Cosmos and I'm number of other bigger projects they're one of our key partners as we go into Asia they also run validators as a service but then there's also partners like hashkee which is kind of it's a subsidiary of one of the

Largest public companies that actually focuses on automobiles strangely enough but they were you know a Chinese endorsed it's a Chinese public company that then is the only one that's really allowed to pursue blockchain

Pursuits and it became LPS or like started in bushi early VC started hashkee and number of others so and they they produce the one shine conference which is the largest conference in China about blockchain technology so then they

Also have hash quark which is their subsidiary that runs the validator business which is also you are very very well-connected when it comes to partner support in China let's be real about that how did you forge those connections

Because they have significant ones without again and trying to suggest any you know FOMO here I don't like that smells like this is real like these are really big partnerships for that region yeah I mean one one string is a you know

Multi-billion dollar company so we were very lucky to to find these partners and truthfully they came to us so I think we fell into this really nice positioning it's probably because we were crypto for a while and watched what was working and

What wasn't and when we released this multicolored old CD c2p platform that's effectively like maker Dow and cosmos yep just to keep it clean and simple it was such a clear value proposition that resonated that we had these groups as

Soon as they saw our blog post that we put out within two days we had finished a private sale around yeah lots of people from around China and Korea and I'm not shocked given that a lot of the money is there and also look at the

Success of maker you know look at the piece s of die I mean it's this is the market cap spend you know substantial it's been very positively if you're Imperium network and for all those parties that support

Miriam so in that respect no I you really bullish on your ability to capture a significant market share of this industry now as we see already proof that a lot of people do want it what it's interesting so like our

Partners and in Singapore is kind of jokingly whenever they introduced me to any of their friends or partners they'd say hey meet Brian he's maker down at 5 cents I would say that where we are today we've probably gotten a lot bigger

Very quickly but we still have a lot a lot more ability to grow going forward as she said we're just taking our first baby steps I'm into this and how I think about is if we're not competing with someone like maker Dow which is very

Etherium focused they're gonna have a hard time moving their core user base in that platform onto anything else like cosmos it just isn't really practical we have this second mover advantage strangely enough to start interacting

With all these assets that don't have smart contracting capabilities that given the system that we built and what's so nice about that is we don't need to spend our company resources which as a small company are very

Limited competing to take market share away from maker maker addresses the etherium community quite well and while we can be generalized and support a theme in the future it doesn't make sense for us to spend there instead we

Can focus on the market like BTC or XRP with BTC being ten times the size of aetherium know where there's no competition or XRP or there's no competition yeah we can just do that and you know what's interesting to also not

Only are you I would argue a dark horse you know in terms of people one may not even know you're just not the unknown you know right now compared to all of the the strength of the narrative out there for something like maker but if in

Day indeed you start to really showcase what you can do and become you know more prominent in terms of just known as a digital asset I wonder if some of these parties will actually transition from you know they're interesting investments

In some you know for example like Dyer and make it and move across because already you start to see right now as the people shifting from certain positions you know whereas they're trying to pursue more utility

Yeah I think one of the interesting things about our positioning and our just like where we are as a company is we have direct relationships with the financer ripple and we can bring a lot of value to their ecosystems where

They're actually incentivized to see us really kickstart and grow rapidly and that's not something that a team like maker really has they're just for those a little just because they're limited in sort of the technological capabilities

That they have right and that's affirmed also by the advisers just to jump in there because you have someone like sunny from cosmos you have Roderick from lemonis Kapil's obviously connections with you know important be seeds and

Capital then you also have jack you know we tend to mint and then with Robert from compounds as well so again you are very strong in terms of the associations and the network to to reflect these funds of potential and this kind of

Growth in the future yeah I mean there their advice is very helpful we didn't we actually had we could have had a huge Advisory Board but we chose people specifically that we wanted the opinions of that could devote their time and

Resources to helping us grow yeah I would say that where we are particularly strong and what I would really like to see us move forward with and what I'm hoping happens is that teams like keep in T BTC or compound start seeing what

Progress we make within the cosmos ecosystem and they start seeing the incentives to move things that they're struggling to build on other blockchains and then taking that with once we provide a basis of a lending system like

Maker has done for aetherium then all of a sudden if you know we have us DX with 50 million dollars or 100 million dollars as the base for something like compound to move over and start playing with it becomes very

Interesting but until we actually do that it's going to be hard to make the case for compound to move off of the theory I think that's one of our our key objectives is to basically create a very fertile landscape using the partners

That we have in the technology that were build – then create this new t fireplace that can involve many many more assets and my if I can already hear that you have lofty goals and you certainly want to

Take some of that market share you know there I say from the etherium Network and you know that's reflected also in the vision stated you know in your literature you want to be number one when it comes to defy applications and

You want to capture you know a significant user base perhaps not rush it but you know you really just really shot showcase based on proof is that still true you do want to be number one in d5 I think we want to be the the de

Facto or the go-to platform when it comes to lending I don't think that we necessarily have to be the number one stable coin created well that will be something that we focused on I think it's really going to chase user demand

What's really interesting as I said because we can be a generalist synthetic platform we actually could create something not pegged to US dollar but pipe tether as an example right and depending on how the market responds to

That with a crypto back tether that might actually be more trustworthy than tether itself because there's actual you know very clear assets that the packet and it'll be up to exchanges if they actually want to support deposits and

Withdrawals for tether in our version of synthetic tether so there's like a lot of just interesting things but my point is is that we're gonna follow what the market wants we're not gonna be specific I'm just driving the stable coin instead

We're gonna be focused on driving adoption of what and one of our core KPIs that we defined for ourselves is capital under management of our software so the more assets that we can get to flow in to the Cobo platform we perceive

That we're doing better and better so our goal is like whatever is going to drive more flow of assets into us that's what we're going to prioritize well mine you've certainly got you know powerful partners you know to support you in back

You the names as you mentioned some of them but also you've got those like Arrington token research group as I mentioned before lenders cats take with us and enlist goes on so I'm looking forward to seeing pro support from the

US you know if indeed that comes because that's going to open the door or then to a serious market as well and already your market is significant for the future so that it's looking good for you in the next few years I would argue

Because you know you can read yeah fingers crossed but I mean it's looking good let's be real because the sec is certainly not suggesting that they're anti blockchain and they're not anti you know crypto in the sense of utility

Either you know that's why we had the CFTC so things are looking good but I wish you well in that front because you know it's a challenging arena to break into they haven't even worked out their regulations yet but right now let's talk

About something that is on the tips of everyone's tongue and that's that hope in itself utility token by design I first wanted to ask you about lock ups before we talk even numbers because I want to know I can trust that the

Investors in Carver aren't gonna dump on me I need to trust in that too so we worked actually very closely with their private cell investors because we started with a particularly schedule that I think a lot of projects start

With it is trying to raise money and kind of get started fast and it's not always thought with going to the public market in mind right away and for for us because we just I mean you know I'll be real it was much faster progress than we

Thought we didn't think we're gonna announce in June have an IE Oh before the end of the year on Finance right you know it could have been an i/o on any other platform much less like the number one sort of all coin exchange in the

World so we had to redefine what our plans were based on that sort of traction in progress for ourselves and that required me to go back to over private cell investors and say you know look guys if we have any amount of

Liquid tokens in the next you know not just three months but even in the next year it's going to be a very bad signal to the market I want to have a Genesis account where all of the accounts at the start of the blockchain that received

Tokens never move their tokens exactly for as long as possible I want that to you know if a single person moves their tokens it sort of signals back to the market if I move my tokens if you move you know your tokens mr. v-c everyone is

Gonna be spooked and it doesn't matter if you're just trying to de-risk or whatever less let's be real big question box since we start to say that as movies yeah so what we were able to do was we got

Everyone to hold hands together and it's kind of walk forward without you know trusting in us but trusting and all the other private cell investors which is a large task in itself and I think we have the most aggressive lock up structure of

Any token project that's good because hate that if you can throw me on do it here because we want to make sure that these guys are here the long term and they're not going to essentially just you know pump and dump and move on to

The next because of their permanent position and because they're privileged capital yeah so just for like very specific numbers and this is on the the finance research report that was released but the no private sale

Investor has the ability to sell tokens until six months after our I oh so that was just a hundred percent locked and then even then every private sell investor has agreed to running notes on our network so no one was just like a VC

That's just in there for a financial return everyone is required to run node or validator and participate in the network they're gonna doing real work for their work for two years for two years and their ability to restore

Tokens is based on that work so and there's certain milestones made in each contract that says you know they might get some in six months you know some small portion ten or twenty percent of their total token amount but if they

Stop validators they stop doing that work for any period of time thereafter they're actually forfeiting all the rest of it I love it because it's putting pressure on them then to make sure that they're part of the longevity of the

Ecosystem of kaabah and that you know having talked to so many CEOs and having discussed token modeling at length because it's a big you know focus of mine very rarely do you see that built into the agreement of the this act for

Example unity the contract so it's great that you know they fall for all of that's not going to continue supporting Carver it was both important from a markets perspective to have it structured this way but it was also very

Important to have it from a regulatory standpoint to make sure that everyone was purchasing tokens to participate in the network not just for financial exactly for yeah and they were stating they were

Gonna do work themselves yeah so from from our perspective we you know talked to the SEC we didn't sell this to anyone who's trying to resell it got up so how much idea rice in a name title so in the first rounds I think they totaled up so

We did a private sale or a private sorry I'm using terms we just seed an equity round before we even did this blockchain which included the likes of ripple lemonis digital assets pond and some others but then in terms of the token

Sale itself that started you know in June through August and that total is 5.5 million I might have the numbers slightly off in my head but it was roughly that and then an IU we raised an additional three million

And that's quite a lot considering the bear market so you've done well obviously now looking at the scenario player now what I found very interesting to be totally transparent is that you're the the price movement of your token in

Terms of volatility hasn't been you know immensely volatile compared in many other assets so that's been interesting you know if we can talk about perhaps you know the market cap you know what I was I did want to acknowledge that one

Thing that we don't tend to see that much of these total supplies being say under 15 mil in your case it really is so scarce that he's built into your model as well Brian no question of that as in terms of assets your supply is you

Know a little over half you know eight point nine mil now but I just yeah as soon as I saw that I thought okay here you have you know a very significant asset that's going to make waves potentially in the marketplace

Relatively scarce or very spheres in fact when you compare it to their total supply of many different assets out there so you know that's a big deal when we're talking about significant use case potential and relatively scarce asset

Yeah it's it's all by design and I know a lot of that scarcity thankfully was due to a lot of this assistance and guidance of finance they actually live acted almost as like IPO advisors where they helped

Us redefine what our release schedule should be and it wasn't to sort of maximize the return of like Java labs the company or anything like that it was actually given as she said the bear market we just had to make sure that

When we introduced this token to the market it was literally just creating a token that was scarce and just applying demand to it without cell pressure from any of the new investors that purchased it maybe at a lower price right and

That's something that for us how we see it is we have to grow the market now both in terms of buyers and sellers we need to build that up before allowing any other person who might have an advantage like the early investor to

Even participate in that market so our efforts on the market side is to really build that up build up both the price support and the depth at all times and grow that organically and just keep applying sort of more and more demand to

It whether it be on Finance itself or expanding access to kava by listing on other exchanges in other regions wherein currently like like you said in the US people don't have access to it or in Korea they might not have access to it

Focus on that so apply more demand and make sure the depth is good and only then start slowly releasing the ability for private cell investors to liquidate tokens into the market exactly right I mean we don't want at that point when

The liquidity is sound enough for the ecosystem to court to cope with that or the net the network itself yeah yeah I mean just no one wants to see a bigger price crash we're sick of it so sick of that sort of kind of crypto crap that

Goes on but again the reason why I want to have this transparent discussions because your utility backs you know in the legitimate sense you're not just simply in one of those let's call and ship coins the type that I really just

Driven towards short-term profits and short-term gains but there's no proof of value in any respect and that's the old moment ship coin and then they just exit you know all all of them go to the Caribbean you know have a big party so

Really once again we want to make sure that the long-term structures there from the token modeling you know planning so that there's integrity built in and there's sending liquidity and liquidity support

Now for that to happen you all so I imagine while looking in the direction of extending liquidity support into different exchanges you know those are reputable so are you considering that in the future now opening up that potential

Or allowing those parties to come in and knock on your door and have a conversation yeah so the exchanges we've actually started conversations with I would say 30 plus different exchanges they reach out to us they've seen that

We are you know the five million and I've seen all of that I feel the volume going on and on – mr. Hale I'll make some transaction fees kinda looks pretty good so in that that regards like it's been

Nice that it's inbound similar to it to our investor on the ground so you know we're lucky I know that that's not true for a lot of very lucky but how do you decide any of it which ones I we look at in terms of access is actually better to

Consolidate liquidy on a single exchange because it's a better trading experience for everyone involved right less price slippage depending on the sizes there's less risk in terms of different prices being on different books like the worst

Trading experience for anyone is having a very thin order book where you know you want to buy or sell and it moves the price you know to plus percent it just it becomes a risky thing to just participate there especially when

They're not you know legitimate actors in aspects you know that there are doing and watch trading for themselves or something like that yeah exactly so to that point though anecdotally at least the information I have from like

Our exchange partners and market makers that that we work with deceive liquidity is that almost 95 percent of our volume that we've seen over the past month since we've launched has been organic so it's actually not from any direct

Partner that we're working with it's actually all market driven which has been it's a sign that it's a very healthy market so my fingers across that that continues and as we expand into two other markets

Similarly like we'll have to work with you know market making partner to seed the early acquittee and make sure the trade experience is good but the idea is that we spread out we open up access to key markets that currently don't have

Access to kava so for example if a Korean exchange update or kaatham or something like that and then a node you never know it might happen in the u.s. sundae with water in the US fingers crossed

Yes is the one I would love if I could great in the future that you know the US market isn't precluded from all of these you know technological innovations which happened to be tokenized I agree so the future essentially is looking bright

Though in terms of if you've already got all of these parties knocking on your door you don't sound stressed at all about you know the opportunities afforded you but I do like hearing that

You're really focused on making sure that the liquidity is legitimate and it's real that's a writ like I said I'm a liquidity maximalist all right so I'm I trade in my spare time and I understand what makes an interesting

Experience for people hands liquidity is not there it's just not good for anyone it's not good for the project it's not good for the participants of the project it's not even good for the speculators

That are trying to do that you'll play the markets first I'm not good for the relative space because eventually it made people out yeah exactly so my let's talk about something about other aspects of the target in terms of

Potential value propositions that really I guess potentially infer greater value in this asset and these are things like staking I want to talk about burning as well have you got any built in there and also fees and incentives now you've got

Your going on for your target hmm so for the copper token itself is both an inflationary model and a deflationary model like I said we're a central bank we actually have multiple levers that we can pull depending on different

Situations so because it's a proof of stake system similar to the cosmos hub with Adam all the there this block rewards produced that are part of the incentives for the proof of stake model where people will stake their assets and

They risk actually getting slashed if they misbehave if they do something like signing transactions but they don't have good uptime with the validator their assets of kava can be slashed as a punishment or a deterrent but then what

The upside is is that they can earn a variable inflation rate which varies between I've latest three and twenty percent depending on how much kava is being staked at the network in a time so in like today today's state at seven

Percent rough roughly any damn good really it's it's not super high but it's a healthy amount that still provides good incentives and I think of it almost is like subsidies to validators to help secure the network it's like the price

Of of security for the network we're in like a healthy economy that's very robust and growing you probably want something a bit slower like two or three percent but if it's a blockchain that needs to have more stake to be secure so

For any pbft system your practical Byzantine fault-tolerant system liked Enderman you want to make sure that your stake percentage is above sixty seven percent at all times all otherwise that is is very very risky right so that's

When you increase the inflationary rewards so anyone who's staking and validating they actually get a disproportionate amount of that and incentivize more people to come in and participate in that way and provide that

Security is a serious economic you know principles are built into this because you know we're talking about banking principles banking you know fundamentals yeah and security is probably are first and foremost of all like we actually had

A false start with our main net launch where we tried to launch and certain risky situations occurred where we actually had a fork on block to because different alligators who were part of our Genesis actually had different

Genesis files for some reason they one of them are you know a few of them didn't update the files accordingly so they didn't match and it cost a fork then a different valide ran to a double signing issue and got slashed it was

Just messy and we felt that there's too much there's so much financial risk given that our blockchain at that time you know was worth roughly a hundred million dollars in total assets it made no sense to do sort of a rush start for

Progress for the sake of progress instead we just paused everything canceled it and then said let's fix these issues make sure that it's not a percent solved and relaunch that's all so soon yeah that's that's because it's

People like money confident yeah right is people's money at stake here at the end of the day so we need to do right by for that and in that ring of good safety and security are always I really appreciate you know hearing that sort of

Stuff because you do respect the fact that people literally are putting their money into this and you know this venture so in terms of you've mentioned staking in the asset you know proposition there whether the value add

Fees in the incentives are clear what about burning are you doing anything like you know we see like with the B&B token for example yeah so we're not doing active burning like Tata Labs is taking a bunch of cotton and burning

Them ourselves yeah well as the CVP system is used people the users are paying a stability fee in the copper token so we can think of it as a function of some percentage of the loaned amount ultimately gets

Paid as a stability fee and that fee is either 100% burned or some of it is reallocated to offer the savings rate of the stable coins and I think of it as like a if we want to increase demand for the stable coin USD X we want to

Increase the savings rate that someone can receive when they bond it currently the competition with tether is zero right but if we offer you know one or two percent that might be interesting if we want to make it really interesting we

Can ratchet that up to four or five but ultimately that's coming from kind of these stability fees that are there the the users are actually paying and that those that burning is either 100% burned and returned effectively as like a cash

By the earth stock buyback or token buyback and to the kava holders themselves or if the the token holders want to see more growth of the system and useless of the system they're gonna actually allocate a portion of that to

The savings rate and increase demand for you know the loans will stick and I suspect you some of them will you know because obviously that does you know make it more attractive for your ass yeah should raise the value of them very

Much as well yeah very much so so you've really thought about a lot of the different aspects of your token to really build for in Phi and deflationary models which is just interesting you know in every aspect

Considering that we see such an immense market share for just not just as I mentioned die die and make it but we also see that with tether and you're literally trying to capture both markets and that's huge you know in the scope of

The next few years coming now just briefly I wanted to talk ask you about finance given you know the recent dare I say fad but I only ask you this you know more objectively in the sense that do you have any concerns given that there

Is a degree of fragility more in the broader landscape right now we've already alluded to that whatever are you at all concerned because you do have a very unique relationship with finance and they assumed it I assume they're

With you for the long term yeah – very greedy partner and there are industry partners or I shouldn't say partners but industry players attacking finance through fraud and you know fake news and other things and I also know that you

Know exchange is immune from regulatory pressures just generally so that's always a concern and we treat this very much like an investor would their investment portfolio where we look at finance is a very core partner and one

That we're leaning very heavily into but at the same time we don't want to be a project that's just a finance project we really are trying to build to support the entire crypto ecosystem got up and in the same vein we don't want to just

Have all of our risk you know if finance succeeds or fails we succeed or fail we need to have you know multiple kind of places that we can find our user base from so we will be looking at future exchanges to branch out from here

Particularly as I mentioned before those that increase our access to customers that line outs might not particularly have or have good reach into so that's good to know because you know no one wants to invest in something that's a

Great risk you know and has this you know over leveraged you know association perhaps with one particular entity and regardless of their performance so I guess it's great to see that you're standing on your own two feet and in

Time you know bye-bye design you'll have more more arms you know more fingers you know in and in different parts essentially yeah hmm now wait just finally one more thing and that is your marketing strategy

Obviously there's different strategies for different startups but you know you understand crypto you also understand in the imperative of having true utility as you move forward and run it and actually have a viable company as well but in the

Crypto sense what is your plan to really get the name of caller out there because it's one thing to have utility and it's another thing in a time of great clan but to actually get the community really aware so they can start trial is how do

You do that yeah it's a it's an interesting challenge each crypt of Roderick has their own core user base and as I alluded to before I think we're very fortunate in the fact that our user base are the traders themselves so being

Able to do and actually from from our roll out what our initial focus was was actually on more of the technical folks within crypto the people who are running notes who were validators who had existing businesses like that because

That's what was needed to kick-start and launch our blockchain in a safe secure in decentralized way and since then we've done that so now I'm going forward from from this point our marketing and our messaging is changing very much now

Into the CDP users and who those are specifically our traders who hold a good amount of the assets that were integrating whether it be PTC X R P V and B or AB and in the short term that's that's gonna be our focus

So as we integrate each each new asset and we build support for that we'll be doing very targeted campaigns in different Gio's primarily as I said Asia and the greater Western world so the two-pronged approach you know one in

Mandarin and one in English to drive usage from the people that we can reach through these audiences to move their assets into our platform and start using it okay we'll just snowball that as you know as success begets success and has

More assets come in it becomes safer for perceived safer for everyone else to so use it and hopefully you know it spreads out from there and has a good network effect right so two tough questions how do you then expand that

Into the mainstream arena where they were very few people whether they be enterprises or users don't know anything about crypto how are you going to you know enter into that market or permeate that

And also know the other aspects as well you know we talked about those parties that are currently using crypto and and those that are well apparently versed in that but exploring the market beyond you know in in the crypto sense beyond that

To perhaps those parties that are enterprise driven in that sector as well then how do you really broaden this out hmm so I might take a step back and say that's definitely not our challenge

Since that's not our core user base or core user base our active crypto traders today however as a company as a community what our focus will be on to reach those I think a bit very much is like distributors who then have

Retailers and I come from a hardware company you know previously a fanatic we had no mice keyboards and headsets that in different countries we had distributor partners then I worked with a series of retailers similarly here I

Think of integrations as the distributors to then reach the retail audience so a partner like coinbase is building out staking and you know support natively in their mobile application for more of this like

Broader retail base and what they'll see is sort of kava asset and some interest rate that they can receive if they hold it and similarly USD X and some interest rate if it's bonded all natively within their wallet application and I know a

Number of wallets and different experience but direct to retail companies that are building integrations like this both for our asset as well as other assets I exist in the space so I think those will be the main ways that

We reach the broader audience that might not understand kind of the underlying machinations of what we're doing but they can still benefit from having a stable asset and getting a bond like a positive bond yield off of it so that's

At least kind of we think about it so from our our site really like a b.p effort to incentivize and get those integrations with the partners that we think have the widest reach to

The broader audience well Brian there's a lot going on for you may know I've had a lot of fun listening to all the developing I know it's been a long interview if anyone's still listening you have survived but

The idea of this was to really allow Brian to let us know the full scope of what Carla's trying to do without an injection of FOMO or hype and hopefully you know we've projected that through this conversation today Brian thank you

Very much mate for making the time today it's very clear that you are in a very specific vertical right now that is hot you know as they say in China but that's because utility is the imperative we are all sick and tired of shit coins and we

Definitely want to see proof of utility and right now when it comes to money it's very clear that crypto offers a technology that is beyond just now an idea or some sort of actual possibility we're seeing proof of this

So may you are in a very very good position a lot of support behind you I wish you all the very best as you continue to showcase the benefits of the blockchain through you know finance changing finance essentially making sure

That we can engage in better financial outcomes through shifting the entire paradigm itself so keep going mate keep building if there's anything you want to say no just finally let the people know exactly where you stand go for it mate

You know the closing statement for today yeah Thank You Brad for like the very in-depth questions and hopefully they they provide a lot of insight to the audience listening for what we're doing and at least where we're headed and what

We're aiming to do but I really appreciate kind of like the the thoroughness and the insights that you've brought to this as well so for everyone listening and my final closing statement would be if I had to

Choose one if I had a billboard somewhere that could say like one thing I would say I'm very excited and you know I'll just end on this I'm very excited to spite not going into the u.s. that we're gonna offer trustless

Software that anyone can use within the u.s. that might not have access to margin trading the condo platform is there in a censorship resistant way where you actually can get a loan on your crypto

And marchin trade with it yeah we couldn't ask for a better thing you know in the platform the city ping platform a net it's coming you know there's a lot still building from so looking at 2020 and as you said may all the assets are

There for transforming financial scenarios where we support the new ethos and you're leading that out makes a keep going and hopefully we can catch up with shorter sharper interviews really focused on key aspects making but yeah

I'll certainly be you know texting you as you build to say can you come on let's talk more because a lot you know you're gonna be doing next few years I'd imagine yeah I would love to do it thank you again for your time and if anyone

Wants to join the college community you can follow us on twitter at cava underscore labs and on telegram is t dot me slash collapse well said might and on that note I will put all of that in the description below

So that's easy to access and make sure you know you do check out cava do your own research make your own decisions it's all about the end of the day utility and real proof of value when it comes to this very complicated space we

Call crypto so keep going bro and keep building and we'll catch up soon okay thank you

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