Ivy League Pro-Dairy Student Attacks Veganism (DEBATE – Dairy Outreach at Cornell University)

by birtanpublished on September 16, 2020

You keep going from cows milk yes killing alright but ended up to to intervene do you can't have one without really but okay so what happens like remotely so you that's a cow is this suffering right and that's objective to you they show psychological signs of

Tonics and stuff I don't see that it's very cute okay cool yeah okay I like have you ever considered to what happens to two dairy cows you heard a farm side trade okay let me give you so this one is really close by and actually

This one's called farm sanction is one of the originals I think the guys set up sky coaching Bowers for like nineteen seventies yeah what is the wild core aspect what does that change in Y alright why does that make it more moral

In your eyes and how do they die what happens when they're pulled out the ocean what what what what is it they kills them this stuff you've thought about before a lot of that helps doesn't it and so um

What happened to the dairy industry is dairy cows and go through a process called artificial insemination which is where they're forcibly impregnated but then their babies when that when they when they give birth them are taken away

From them so that they can take the milk and feed it to humans and do you think Robins to dairy cows do you think when when they no longer produce milk what where do they go for me exactly what do you think about what happens you think

It's a moral action you think it is moral shooting tomorrow and so do you think the veganism is something you'd be interested in that don't think the beginning I mean when I when I used to be me and Darius and I thought the

Notion of going vegan was terrifying for me but it becomes when you normal you know and then it's just about it's just about a process of change if we wild catch fish in what in what manner do they die what

No I guess it's like we pull out all these fish from the ocean then they're gonna they suffocate primarily oh it's grim but if they dragged from deep enough you know without the pressure in the water right and if you're a human

You're a scuba dive and you have to come up in incremental stages of wise it causes oxygen bubbles in your blood which can kill you well that's what happens to the fishes they're pulled out of the water really quickly it can cause

Their organs to implodes as well so that's how they can die as well it's pretty grim isn't it let's say let's be super like like pushy and say from this point on what would stop you from doing that like Jenny or the chicken the space

For like only minute and then like with this information about dairy and stuff like it all fits into place and then you start to realize well actually if I'm against like read me and not on chicken then I should be

Against area legs and then obviously it makes complete logical sense I grew up on the farm insertion problem address and I think that what we do is at the call I mean I lived above you might find your genitals ugly so I

Grew up on a dairy farm financial financial I mean it was probably one most heartbreaking my life seeing my animals and it's not because of like factory farming making it not profitable small farms on the farm so you say you

Eat fish for protein when if you ever do eat fish but why what makes you buy the fish rather than say like the chickpeas or the beans or the grains or the tofu or the tempeh or the soy products or I know why the fish for protein what makes

Them so special what makes it healthy why'd you come why'd you kind of take fish with you and what fish do you can see the wild caught fish run so think about it this way we're polluting our oceans right now so think of all the

Plastic in the ocean and think about all the the runoff the feces from the agriculture industries that runs off into the ocean so the animals will consume all those bits and so they consume something like

PCBs and like chemical pollutants and stuff so that means that when you consume the fish you're consuming those bits as well if you go over there and read that sign right it has two words on it has catastrophic and destructive

Right those are overblown in my opinion that language that alarmist view I don't I don't subscribe to but overblown by who because if let's say the catastrophic word that nowhere we were using that

Word but that's not a word that we solely used to describe what's happening so if so the University of Oxford use that word and the United Nations use that word in their studies that they've released so at what point does that word

Become credible to you when something is actually catastrophic was drafted well let's look at what's happening around the world climate change is happening and let's look at the causes of climate change and an elaborate culture is one

Because we were talking about animal agriculture being catastrophic right there's that in relation to what you're saying so we have to look at so we have to play we have to understand that everything has a cause and effect

Right and so my net cows milk may seem trivial because we go in there but there's an effect that there's bigger than we can potentially comprehend from what's tangible in front of us right and and the environmental degradation is one

Aspect of that and so things might be happening on a different part of the world but it's still related to what we do in a Western society as well just that logical main chain if you're using the talk about just just if we're

Talking about tells me because I think that's what the sign is about even if it's like a factor of 10 so let's say a tenth of global warming is caused by animal agriculture in order to get the catastrophic so we're so but the

Catastrophic is an accumulation of all these different aspects and what I was saying is the United Nations University of Oxford I should be more specific they used the word catastrophic in relation to what animal agriculture does

To our climate and so the question I was posing to you is at what point do these alarmist views become views that we should take note of and view has been having an element of veracity at what point yeah and when you can actually

Show me how one leads to something catastrophic a real link but when you can actually link the two together like I mean I I can't tangibly show you but of course I can tangibly show you the effects of you know co2 with what it's

Doing to our environment but I can show you through through studies that have been conducted on the matter which of course they're not tangible but the effects of climate change are not tangible to us living in upstate New

York necessarily so how often do twice a day okay so we feed our cows I do think that there is there's something to be said about and when we're raised in a certain situation a lot of our values come from society

But also kind of what our parents show us and what's in our local communities and such so if we're raising like farming areas a lot of what we perceive to be right and wrong comes from what we are associated with in those farming

Areas and so I think when we look at kind of issues of like welfare and well-being it's like well yes I've cost you can you feed the animals and you change the bedding I'm sure and you give them what when they need water but those

Are also necessities for you to produce a profitable product and so if we could look at other countries in the world that do a dog farming or room or even dog farm or even aquariums where they have like you know in Japan might have

Like dolphins and so they still feed them they still provide them with what they need to survive for me IPC but it's been like a a way of rationalizing about hunches the things that we do and so we take the babies away from the mothers

And but we rationalize that by saying well you know we can give the baby all the care that they need you know sometimes dairy cows might reject the babies and so but this way around we get to make sure they get

Color strim the antibodies they need that they're healthy they're strong they've all the nutrients they need but without that process of separation is an objectively cruel process because they are matriarchal animals and you know

They do want to nurse their young even from an evolutionary perspective animals only survived because they have you know paternal and maternal bonds and so that that's the case I would make is that I don't think that you have to

Abused animals but I think that there is someone and the word disingenuous sounds overly critical I don't mean it to but disingenuous feeling of like I'm doing this the right thing but actually are doing the right thing to make money to

Provide a product if you have two options the dairy and the non-dairy how do you then justify buying that the dairy that causes animal suffering how do they justify it when you have two options but if that's but there's a

Difference between what you feel and what is objectively true right so in animal in a slaughterhouse who has the fro that that's an objective form of suffering is the whole process of course but just like how do you justify this

Living enamels throat for life your if your pleasure you can say that even if your even if we're using like natural analogies jump any animal in the wild humans we have moral agency and we live in a civilized society so debase our

Morality and actions of wild animals would be somewhat no no no no I'm happy too so that means that we can make decisions based on a notion of writing wrong that doesn't mean that we can denigrate the suffering of animals

Because we're more intelligent than them intelligence is not a justifier in terms of suffering and a de sensory pleasure justify notion which is an emotional intelligence we are all part of the animal kingdom but of course there are

Differentiations between animal species an eagle is better eyesight than us a dolphin can see SONA but we also have moral agency so we have an emotional intellectual capacity that non-human animals don't need you I don't I don't

See as an animal but if I bought a cow and then I milk the cow and but that's a red herring mode you're not going to do that though ok but if I did all those things right would that be morally wrong well you still have to impregnate the

Cow and you start to take the baby away from the mother but that's how we produce smell ok so those that I just don't but that's where we have a disagreement but you can disagree but objectivity is objectivity and so if

Animals suffer and this isn't this isn't a vegan bio standpoint many farmers will admit that the bond between a dairy cow and their child is of course maternal for evolutionary purposes but also from you know yeah and that's why and keep

Going back to you know your worldview you just said evolutionary purposes right no it's so again your worldview is in a incoherent in my view Oh cuz we're gonna keep going down Israel okay I disagree

With your world but why did God produce cows who can produce milk than what if the purpose of milk isn't for a baby to drink from their mother then why did God create a process where the mother has to have a baby to reduce no we were we were

Given stewardship over the creation and in cows and those type of animals were we're able to cultivate and use those animals for our energy to steward shed some but the word stewardship is not it doesn't kind of slave of exploitation –

Killing for pleasure right I'm grass is killing for food and enter in an inner but you said send you said sensory pleasures are justify and sensory pleasure is a form of enjoyment so sensory pleasure from watching animals

Or sensory pleasure from consuming offering again right you keep going from cows milk yes killing all right but that that the two innocent you can't have one without really but okay so what happens like

Remotely so you that's a cow is this suffering right and that's objective to you they show psychological signs of tonics and stuff but you could set up anything right you could kick account a dog sorry I could kick a dog and say are

That dogs exhibiting psychological signs that they've coward they made a noise I don't see it so I'm gonna carry on doing that because personally my worldview dictates that dogs not suffer a red herring that's a red herring no no no I

Could physically but it's the same correlation between no no no the logic is that my world being a cow and kicking a dog the two actions are different but your logic of I don't perceive that to be suffering is the same so I'm saying

If I kick a dog as long as I don't perceive that to be suffering well you can in the same way that if you kick a dog objectively you can see the dog suffering they cower they make noises you can do so of a dairy cow when they

Have their baby taken away from them they mourn they move they follow they chase where their baby's going dairy farmers talk about was himself with the police value in using the milk for human consumption I place a value on that you

Don't but it's not a necessity but not here I'm not interested in other parts let's talk about you and I here end it now with the helmet but you can't use people in impoverished countries to justify your actions in a western

Country a Cornell and Ivy League the one thing I wanted to ask because we were talking about like well-being and tongue and so you know what about when he says we look at the animals every stage of their life and so what happened what

Happens when the like the truck comes in to get them from the farm well at what point do you relinquish the responsibility for their well-being and also what do you think do you think slaughterhouses are humane in this

I think that slaughterhouses here in the US are under certain regulations to actually follow the regulations that we have a place our humane and the reason I say this and like that decision of when an animal needs to leave the farm or

Needs to leave whatever it is it needs to be euthanized isn't like a sentence no decision there's I don't know a single farmer who said oh this is exactly criteria what they will have to say no I mean it's it's fluid and I

Think that the laws and regulations that we have in this country are extremely important for INLA welfare food safety and for employee safety onions I like talking about sustainability there's so many different things are important in

This and I mean there's so many different studies and this of course goes into the research type of area of actually looking at the different hormones the stresses the behaviors of these animals when they're going through

These slaughterhouses that I can comfortably say that they are humane and I've seen so cactus and so describe the process of how the humane okay let's describe if we need to learn to man we have to work out what the

Definition is where do you make so what would be an objective definition of humane well I would even say natural cuz natural can be vicious yeah I would yeah natural can be vicious um I would say humane would be stress-free well I'm

Almost eight if you're a humane person I don't see it so yes I say um you're a really nice person I think you're a very humane what what characteristics would I be bestowing upon you I guess it's like okay this isn't

Robably not fair me too late dangle like that so I think that the objective definition of the word humane is is is having or showing compassion or benevolence and so to use the word humane with slaughter we have to

Establish whether or not slaughter is is compassionate or benevolent and so I take me through what you've seen and take me through the process of what a compassionate slaughter looks like in any system it's also a compassionate

Slaughter I think up to the point where it occurs I think the animal is still allowed to show all of its natural tendencies and it's comfortable and I think that it is compassionate because I mean the animal

There's no stressors the animal I mean no one it doesn't grow since going on it stresses a business well I mean I would say enough arms they're not they don't often don't display the natural behaviours when we

Deny them the maternal behaviour and you know we've got Farm Sanctuary I think is crazy right so I think Julia does anyone happen anyone have a pet dog here anyone who's not do you can have a pet dog here yeah if your if your

If your dog and I don't want to says they need everything to be euthanized would you tell him to slaughterhouse to have that done which in the process of slaughtering the and here in the US you have to it's called stunned the animal

First yeah so yes honestly the way that's done I have a corgi she's 14 years old she's getting the degenerative neurological disease yeah it's heartbreaking of course and she's probably enough to be put down the

Next few months yeah I'm that's decisions like she yeah of course so and so she'll have to be euthanized and whether it's a chemical euthanasia or a physical where she's stunned I'm comfortable either

So I fly stunning moment so stylish any different animals it can either occur it's not done a religious slaughter that's that's a different table that we don't need to know um but stunning in mammals is done

Where it hits all part of the brain it is but it can be done in different parts depending on what the species is and so they do that and then immediately it's called insemination where the animals then let out and that is the point of

Death so but I believe the point of stunning I'm yeah but um we've got object to the power well I mean but also I mean objective but also aware and of what's going on and people have to be respectful of the animals

What they're doing but in the same time I think so the difference between sale Corgi and the cows is your Corgi has come to the end of their life and that's horrible but it is a humane thing to do only

Because they were ugly no suffer God cows and dairy farms it's not the end of their life is just they may be there they've got mastitis that will get cleared up you know maybe they're just not you know maybe they've the legs

Displayed and they're no longer suitable to have another baby they're Park Africa and so that the issue of it's not euthanasia in farms it's you are selling them for money but these animals could still live there life is just they no

Longer can make money for the farmer and so that's why they're sold on so the difference is though once you main because one is done out of necessity in kindness but the second is amid the qaol situation or animal is not done out of

Necessity and kindness is done out of there's no more money to be made from them and so can't the question then becomes can you compactly take the life of someone who doesn't need to die right so but is it compassionate if you don't

Have the money to feed them for carefully sanctuary and if you even if you don't and their guests if you can't and that's the thing isn't it you can't keep feeding animal doesn't produce for your cause that's just not liable at all

And also there's no land we kind of you know billions of dairy cows and ownership of course not so in this situation that we have well-defined as a life you've no choice but that doesn't justify this this situation if you know

What I mean that just proves further the situation itself shouldn't be about and so if the final point has to be slaughtered and take life of an animal who doesn't need to die and you probably just like to graze you know then that

Dad can't be compassionate because it's unjust okay what would stop you from from from would stop there wouldn't be anything I just I like I think everyone like I think everyone tries to keep it up in mind especially at us – what's the

Most sane of sustainable and sustainable such a broad road I'm sorry I don't even know and we'd be fine I'm so up no no no no that'd be gratitude is for me can you sit down and talking lovely to meet you have a great day


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