ICON | Min & Ricky Exclusive ICX Interview | Governance & Blockchain Interoperability

by birtanpublished on October 4, 2020

hello it's Brad Lori or blockchain Brad and today we're speaking exclusively with icon many of you know it you've known it for years and they're certainly here to let us know all about what they're doing and what they plan to do in the future utilizing all the tech on the blockchain thank you very much to both gentlemen we have the CEO none other than Mint meals to have Ricky who's also here to really showcase all the new developments that I can have have been making of late thank you gentlemen for being here yeah so let's start let's start with you min I mean

Everyone knows you you certainly be in the face of icon for some time give us a bit of a rundown on you know why you're saying to arrive back in the scene after many months it would imagine I've just knuckling down doing the work what's going on with icon and what's new yeah so I guess in terms of I can't be at a roadmap fallen over nothing else a is surprisingly new we've been just sticking together and rolling are for women or speech I'm just getting to work over the past few months the biggest thing since Jeremy Ranieri was as a consensus is the decentralization

Process of the icon Network we invited many known operators from all over the world to join our network to help with the government's aspect of it as well today we have about 75 candidates that are going through a campaign process so that by the end of September we'll have 20 new P reps or you notice for those that will be governing or network so it's a very very exciting process we're in our last month be like that state is our last laugh in the month of August so just yesterday kind of gave a small teaser of how that will look like with what we call

Pre-loading so typically you can update or download icon that's wallet you could deposit your icx and you could actually stake you could actually vote for representatives that you want to you know move for and I mean you could go to our tracker and look at all the exciting action that's happening with all these candidates so you know a lot of these updates are actually you know it's really awesome for art but I mean what's interesting also is in moving in that direction that push to decentralization most importantly distribution making sure that there is that true

Representation technologically of that ethos that you set out to achieve many of the 2017 iterations of Charak and startups really haven't showcased that development yet so Ricky I want to go across to you for a moment mate you're a new face I haven't haven't actually seen you yet but I've certainly texted with you in the past give us a bit of a rundown on your role and and what know where you've come from and what you know what you're now doing to help support the ecosystem that is so well known that comes from Korea and certainly came you know with a huge sort of effect in the

Market when it did arrive thanks again for having us on so my background is more of a traditional finance base I spent years BC investment banking and equity research primarily focusing on bank stocks so things like give people are in the ankle in sacks those sort of big players in the u.s. really damaged in the blockchain around $2 14 sort of just watch the space from afar apartment never really get my chosen but it wasn't until early about 17 I decided to sort of make the jump pursue this take base for a full time men men through sort of a mutual acquaintance brought to the

Foundation in order to help army institutional management side so thinking about custody providers you see this market makers exchanges is really trying to help institutions have access to iconically right and that's interesting you say that because right now there's a strong push and message coming from Icahn about the developments in that sector particularly with institutions and enterprise but men I'm gonna pull it back a bit – let's say 2017 18 I'm gonna get uncomfortable for a moment because back in the day there was a huge narrative being pushed in the

Community in the ecosystem and it wasn't just for Icahn it was literally you know in that bull bull scenario everyone was happy everyone the ecosystems were thriving but you were at the center of that quite literally flying around the world but I wanted to get get a sense from you directly for everyone what was it like to go through that very challenging Senate scenario of being so incredibly successful when it comes to the outward perspective of price value of the utility token and obviously you can't come in and price but you can certainly comment on this experience of

What it's like to be caught up in the eye of whatever this was the hurricane of crypto that you had to endure as everyone was talking about you and suddenly things have changed very quickly I mean I have to say that is sort of the nature of the industry so that you know we all face the same consequences 2018 where obviously there was big exuberance of the market so it's not just the icon but it was entire market that had very big expectations within a very short time frame so there wasn't anything that I said or have have done to kind of push that in my opinion

You know what we were able to do and we'll enable to control it whatever that we wrote and planned in our white paper we were able to execute it you know down the line so that you know there's nothing that we can do in terms of the actual well mean respectfully you know we've known each other for a while I want to dig deeper into this though because once again you had the icon had the success that many dreamt of in terms of attention narrative outcomes as well and now obviously the scenario is slightly different the landscape is

Different now means so I want to ask you directly because you have insights that so many do not do you feel that sometimes in crypto the narratives and networks actually supersede the value of the technology given that so many things can be pushed and pedal pedal so many agendas so many camps and there's such a strong effect when it comes to social dynamics so I'm not really sure if I understand the question the question is really an interest nutshell tech versus the power of social media the power of narratives and networks you know you've been dude something that

Many people haven't given that right from the outset you were pushing something that was technologically based you know you're showcasing something that hadn't been done before but right now we see the power of narratives can actually overpower situations where starts as a struggling just to emerge despite their strong team intact I mean I think you just have to give it time I don't anything okay all right well that was pretty pretty easy direct so you know I'm gonna go one step further as an Aussie we'd like to be directors you would know mean now given this scenario

That you play out the best thing in Aussie would come up and say oh the best phrase I would say was what the bloody hell happened you know what would from your perspective what does caused something of a scenario where you see a hundred X movement and then you see you know a lot of people moving to other startups you know a lot of attention did shift away much like you know a very positive sort of wave that came through not just as you mentioned before icon some other of significant startups but then there was

That yeah that you know equation of a wave receding you know and the attention moved away so what why did that happen because it really did I mean I can really give you the answer of why the move that we did other than that you know there was a lot of excitement there was a lot of you know people coming in and being excited about what's going to happen there were a lot of exaggerations you know on the other hand did not exaggerate we're keeping our promises we're just executing on the technological front so we've done everything we can to to make

Things happen and of course I made some mistakes along the way it's not something out of the ordinary for a young project or a star not there it's really interesting you saying this mean and Ricky on that note I wanted to ask you you mentioned you've been around for some time what are your thoughts on the discussion of exaggeration of exacerbation of you know writing off you know the hint of a possibility and then it turns into something of a narrative that hasn't been proven sometimes in any context is some more of a general question yeah so I think the space got a

Little overheated and unfortunately was part of it I think you know just a bit of magnitude with the timing I just get it like when you know the icx token exchanges there's the exuberance do you saw a market around that same timing and then then ending crash so yeah I don't think that you can just point out like icon said that this is sort of the only project that this happens to do because there are countless stories that are out sort of have a state trajectory and if you were to you know look at my kind of a back here saying well maybe if the

Token wasn't released in 17 may be the token was released right now as for approaching centralization like whoever do a crew are ascribed value to that so again I think maybe the narrative would shift you see projects like a Cosmo star polka dot who maybe are seeing inflated values because they weren't sort of participating in this secondary market during one of the worst favorite markets we've seen so Brian I think that got it now given given all the knowledge and the experience you both of you have do you also feel that the utility tokens

Themselves obviously you guys having one that fuels your ecosystem as well do you think that they are indeed true to what they purport to have that is that utility that evidence are empirically of being that fuel that does actually authentically drive the ecosystem forward because I ask you this because so many have actually fallen to the wayside since and I first known men and since you know projects like iconic existed many haven't performed as utilities in fact have raised questions of the the overall value of these tokens in the first place

I mean just what we're doing right now it still has utility or you have ICS holders that aren't able to govern the entire network by putting their icx or say representative they wanna get even they won't trust and you earn thought we were securely and on top of that later this year we're building out the entire ecosystem growth mechanisms such as that booster program and EEP which is equal system expansion program where you know these ICS holders to directly build for project that they wanna support and go to system so you know I don't know how else you put it but we're about a

You know a unchained governance system comes in and that it's full-on utility you have never seen before so instead of you know the world in HD today I recently published a hard all that describes that shows how you know corrupt this world is to centralization how we're trying to reverse that shift by introducing a new way to govern through the blockchain apology so through this you know before whereas we would be you know putting on both in candidates or these you know congressman's that we trusted but they weren't able to deliver on the promises

That they think they may win over you actually you know hold for the projects or think that we believe in ourselves not only that we actually get rewards for you know actually working so there's like a cellphone government that we're actually building system called icon so you know we're very proud of what we've built and this is I would say one of the most sophisticated governance systems like you see yeah all right and and we've always maintained that so I wanted to ask you both now that you've had these years of opportunity to build the ecosystem build out the team and end the

Tech what's the current status you know if I was to work walk into the icon headquarters what would the experience be in terms of overview of the tech and the team itself you know compared to when you first started sure so I think from a tax perspective as men said we're nearly complete with everything that we've laid out the road map I think there's some interesting features part a script laid out eep-eep eep-eep ease also a fee to point out which is basically a fee sharing virtual step mechanism which I can go over more detail if you have questions in addition

Just the governance design itself can become deflationary over time so you see these POS be POS systems that are basically minting you tokens to our system is built a way that as the ecosystem matures transaction fees can negate a need to produce in advance or inflation so the design that we've done the technology technology front like men said sort of best-in-class on our view there's you didn't think so horizon I think our exciting future forthcoming men onto the talent side I don't sit in Korea and I posted a nest

Egg but I've been there a handful of times I would say since you know we've launched the project they've been throwing up tear in town I would say overall I would say people are taking even more focused given that we're at this for the final stage decentralization and sort more pride in the work that they're doing and seeing like what we've created and excited about the things that we can do sort of moving forward absolutely in Ricky it's great that you did mention that there's also the SF office as well because there's a real narrative coming from

There of you know a new tone of credibility a new tone of attention when it comes to blockchain being something more than just the mechanisms for transfer of value and assets according to social context we're talking about real enterprise real businesses now what's it like in that scene given that there's been a strong influx of layer one solutions presented at you mentioned some of them before as well do you feel that in that context you are well situated to be taken seriously among your layer one peers I mean I said we are already taken very seriously and I

Think those are the things that we should be talking about I mean a couple of things first of all you know I think we've been talking a lot about the past and there's been a lot of implication that were very uncomfortable with our past which is not true we're really not talking about anything about the past we haven't hit anything you haven't said anything that was you know not true about our network or Ford industry so I just wanted to clear up that we're very comfortable talking about everything about the past even some of the mistakes that we've made way

To I mean in terms of like the natural technology we should be actually becoming more about the deeper technology you know the innovative features and innovation that we've been introducing to the rest of the world we believe that we have one of the most promising on on chain governance systems out there which will eventually lead to one of the best interoperability systems out there so you know you see a lot of the other project and you when you call their one peers we're right up up there and I think a lot of more and more you know note operators or more and more

Academia you know so-called watching experts will be able to tell the difference and see something very interesting and exciting in terms of doing it so it's really interesting you say that I mean because one of the true tests for the success and the integrity of the technology is the uptake of developers and you would know this from the success we've seen in theory and subsequent layer one solutions or newer blockchain centric ecosystems are trying to really get some of that market share developers obviously to build out the and showcase the value are you finding

That that's happening for icon as well and that indeed there's an organic adoption from the developing developers sector from the programmers from the coders to really utilize the the facilities that are afforded by the suite of tools that icon provide well let me put it this way you know other than some of the FIFA and some of the games that we've seen even those in itself there aren't too much exciting things happening in terms of the data ecosystem or in the developer ecosystem yeah you see bits and pieces of promises have stats into the community but

Nothing you know what you what you would consider that the killer that has actually come out still to this day let's turn off so say we're still in the same level playing field what we're more focused right now is getting you know the governance systems you know correct making sure that we're building out the features that we need you know just to make the network very stable and scalable for the long term so you know I think just investing into different apps I think we've seen it all before

It doesn't really have you actually took as well which is you know invest in the system you know so on a more honest thing and very interesting and we have high hopes but you know given the state of the market today I think there's been a little bit too much excitement around – you know at a very very early stage so mm-hmm and there certainly is that that sense of a cooling-off effect even now from that huge wave of hard but I want to move back to that word you set of governance and really showcase what that means from the deep tech are they really you represent so gentlemen either of you

Could you comment more to really paint a picture of the transition of the developments of the depths of the tech that you have created since the beginning so that we can really understand that you're focused on getting the integrity right of the ecosystem sure so I don't know want to talk about a few things – first is be kind of revisited everything about each structure of the blockade so we've introduced two things one is a fee sharing model so with you know we have a built in system that actually gets that operators to actually share the fees

With the users so they even he pay the fees on behalf of their there either so that the the friction that's been happening for user an option when it comes to paying fees where you know in the end you will pay fee in order to make transactions the user base covers at least I'm gonna be eventually you know change that system so that you know the deaf operators to actually cover that secondly we also have what we call virtual steps where the operators could actually stake some of the icx that they've raised or you know borrow in order to and the system would

Actually reward the Deaf operators with what you call virtual steps which is a smaller unit of you know icx mm-hmm only use for transactions so that you know in incentivizing there's more and more users actually used to baths and incentive bonuses that operators to actually operate without a whirring of about transactions yes I think another one would be just the design of deep EEOC which is delegated proof contribution it's just a variation of you POS so really we wanted to solve some of the issues we've seen with other GPS networks such as like a low voter

Turnout or voter apathy we've seen like systems like Deus or systems like Tron where you don't see much engagement though thinking of governance hideouts and in our design we've actually rewarded iconic for their vote so icons will be paid in order to vote governing the icon ecosystem so we think it's a little more sustainable it's a little more equitable and fair it's it's a thing that's I think very interesting in the space and really has been done you see other systems that have like commission or rebates for structures you see sort of a race to the bottom on fees

With the main time it's a set fee and it's based on the percentage of the network state and it's an interesting piece that I think will be something that's very well received by community I'm what's interesting also Ricky is the incentivization to become a really key key component you know really attracting those who want to literally use the ecosystem has there been any strong feedback positive feedback or really in the community since you've made these these these tech tweaks to try and really change the narrative internally yeah I

Mean our community is very positively responding at the moment not only that I think the more you go out there and then talk about the actual network how it functions is actually getting more and more people excited because now you're rethinking how a government should be working right now in today's world we ask voters in the democracy we hire basically politicians we pay politicians with our tax money in order for them to govern or put in the bills and the policies that is you know that protects the people protects their businesses that moves our you know country or

Nations or cities forward but we're turning around that model where instead of us hiring a congressman or politicians to govern for us we're actually self-governing we're here building for project for things that we want you know we feel very passionate about that we feel we're needed and we actually paying ourselves for the votes or looking into these you know projects rather and I mean you said it very eloquently essentially it becomes a bit of a People's Movement essentially and this this technology can really drive not only tech innovation but you know

The upward social mobility uh you know of many around the world globally because this technology can give us a voice but and Andreas Antonopoulos raises an interesting point about the the Triad or that I try a trilemma almost in with regard to enterprise people and government we've talked at length in the past about the top-down powers-that-be and then right now there's a strong conversation happening given that Libre into the conversation very dramatically are you concerned at all I mean for the future with regard to the interplay between these parties and

What the top-down influences can do even even those with very concentrated centralized agendas are you concerned at all that despite the beauty of this technology and what it can do it can actually be thwarted to really change the narrative from the top down no I'm not worried at this point I mean we're you know we're still really the more projects that come in the more attention that we get I mean better it is for the industrial crawl so you know I think it's actually the opposite where you don't see enough initiatives of

Companies or larger conglomerates or governments that are partaking in this you know movement that is that is actually more worrisome so you know I it's it's actually the opposite but what about in Korea because when I can came out there were a lot of allusions to government connections there were so many suggestions of big partnerships with hospitals you know the universities and enterprise what really is happening because we've discussed in the beginning of the interview that institutional partnerships are real and indeed

Developing many of them you're not telling us yet so what is the case you know what it how important are these collaborations with those with significant influence that in terms of economic prosperity in terms of business value so everything is the portion full process we still have the same relationships we even have more interest than ever before when constitute government participation with the blockchain industry with conglomerate participation in the industry and overall the Korea has one of the largest I will say in terms of retail

Investment and you know retail investors so you know all in all it's the PI is even bigger than what a what it was two years ago there's a lot more excitement there are a lot more inner prizes that we're working with today than ever before so I think people just need to be a little bit more patient and trying to see how everything will come together you know in terms of like the legal framework or even in technology we're actually pushing so you know not I think people are you know you and I we just need to understand that you know we want everything to move at a startup

Speed you want to be able to great things playing very very quickly but you know in reality you know working with enterprise from these government you know it takes a lot of time and effort so again very push and pull process right I'm Ricky you know based on what means saying patience is not commonplace in crypto it just simply isn't because many people are here for that casino effect for the blockchain bit often again as we alluded to before is superseded sometimes the real value of the longitudinal stance that many of the teams such as yourselves now that you're

Articulating you are here for the long haul is that a challenge that do you find in the overall picture that we call the crypto sphere or crypto landscape when so many young you know very eager participants of crypto are really looking for significant gains in the short term and I think it's probably analogous to like the traditional markets where you see companies managing their cash flow statement and income state or to meet quarterly earnings machine that sings for the thing here in crypto where you know projects should be in sort of put under the gun for you

Know monthly deadlines or public lunches when in reality everything sort of should be set up for the long term I think we're seeing some of the the issues in traditional markets today where companies are not really investing for the long term because they're under so much pressure from their external stakeholders to meet numbers by a certain period and I think we don't want to get into that situation with startup weighing because we really are trying to do do something special here and I think it takes a little bit time conditions are to come by but it is something

That's needed in space right if you put a little color around it you know hard our gaps are working on that's currently securing over 100 million dollars worth of value and that could grow to billions of dollars over time when you think about that being under certain deadlines certain targets he at the hit it's a little scary to put dance in those four situations when they're building some potentially secure you know hundreds of billions of dollars over time sure and you know to continue this conversation further do you think that regulation and compliance are also

Going to further cement the the prosperity of this industry meaning that we'll see potentially a less-is-more effect with regard to a filtering of the so-called problematic startups all the the non startups that were just you know shell companies or shell startups that really just had no plan but to raise capital do you feel that there's going to be some safeguards there's going to be some light in the tunnel because compliance and regulation globally is becoming more serious yeah I mean I think that's very interesting I was a look at things from the icon networks

Perspective I would say that going forward you know icon from from next one next month onward it's going to be fully decentralized Muni there's no ownership of this project spearheaded the project in the early days we let the technology progress process early in the beginning we've let the governance earning the beginning we actually control a lot of the nodes in the beginning but once the mills and the network becomes more and more decentralized you know there's there's no you know one point where or one person that any regulators could

Point to and say my you know you you're responsible for this network it mean just like healthy centralized I mean arguably I mean the big boy network or a theory 'im no I be the icon is going to be more more decentralized and honestly you know you you know in the beginning you you said founder of the project I'm not the CEO and there's a reason why I'm not the CEO it's because you know the icon Network is not my map or it's not Ricky step or it is the people's network it is the icon is network no no going forward I don't think it really matters what the

Regulators do as long as the people come together and we decide to build thing it's like the government this network together as a whole when that said you know I think more and more regulations for you know for example how companies or how individuals you should work with balance for example with these decentralized effeminate organizations or with other launching product as a developer as a contractor to a project for example how to treat your taxes or how do you how to do a lot of these like these things I think will be you know very will be more and more important and

We see a like that's very important today because there's a lot of confusion with like for example even some of the developers that we try to hire or confuse how they're gonna be you know feels like this this industry doesn't have any security when you provide families so if we could together as AAS with the government with regulators come together and you know build a framework that makes it more secure and makes it more comfortable for more people to work towards different types of projects that they feel actually about I need that actually right and so in that sense do

You feel that it's possible mean to have a scenario where you have a very robust decentralized ecosystem by technological design and premise that's also going to be supported by in agencies such as the government such as enterprise and I ask you this directly because often we see you know move away from that kind of approach because many of them require permission systems we see evidence that in in the way in which permission blockchains it emerged non tokenized systems where they've been incorporated in to corporate agenda right now so do you

Think it's actually likely to happen and have we seen empirical proof of this reciprocal sort of acceptance of a way forward in in crypto so that these parties can indeed benefit from a decentralized system I mean I'm gonna get a constant proof in itself I mean we have actual evidence of enterprises using our public watching for the benefit of their business so right now we have a product called Bruce the blockchain digital certificate where governments or universities or company to issue these digital certificates on the blockchain so they're not forged and

You could always burn like these are anything certificates this is just the things that we feel very very beneficial for these bit of practice Rana you could imagine how in the next few months we'll have other in the prizes or other you know countries with other companies joining in and seeing that wow this is public watching could be useful for other things other than just like businesses are saying there are other ways to use you know so Italy it just takes a little bit of time for people to you know for any no private some companies to gain a little bit of

Confidence to understand the product that they're using and once they realize the security aspect of FD the ease of use and I think us I still apologize we all know it but you know once we find it's easier to use you know you gain more and more confident in the blockchain so mmm it's just a matter of time that we see a mass adoption right and and Ricky I want to ask you in the context of smart contract based platforms obviously you know this is a scenario in which in real businesses is designed to be had and built upon the the the whole framework that is the icon

System now obviously it's very different to the narrative of BTC or forbid coin because right from the outset the agenda was very different but there are other scenarios where smart contracts are involved and certainly pushing for a similar you know decentralized agenda so do you feel that there's space in the system for more than one let's you know let's bring up a theorem for example you know they're really trying to build out the same sort of decentralized ecosystem can they work together and and tell us what interoperability means if it can if they can yeah so I would say absolutely

The canaanites that there'll be multiple platforms out there I would think of each sort of a digital nation so as to speak and each will have their own governance system and I think you know obviously interoperability will be needed in order to sort of transact across networks it's what I kind of sort of envisioned from the start something that we're hoping to execute my end of the year weeks last I heard will have sort of private to public probability you know sort of September and then public the public as soon would get solved sort of single

Point of failure by you know here so there is a lot to be sort of excited about I think people who think it's sort of a zero-sum game play a little mislead I just think that each network will have their own community and I think given the governance system that we build with it I think anything is possible can be built on top of it and we're excited to see where it goes it's really well said especially that zero-sum game comment you made now in that sense we hear maximalist we won't say from which camp but it's pretty obvious from different ones that we've

Seek emerging now when they say things like alt coin you know and they say other more derisive terms as well what are your thoughts gentlemen on that when we see this polarizing of a certain startup or a certain organic movement and then everything else when everything's so polarized do you think that's a healthy thing or not okay polarization is never lumps just trying to dig into your sentiment on this because obviously I don't want to put my own view forward yeah I think that these sort of tribes I mean I see where they come from and

Obviously they're like well dusted in whatever they are pushing but I do think that openness is needed this space is not big enough yet to sort of dick him aside I think we all need to grow the pie first before we start to see sort of who's going to be the bigger taker of the pie and I think to jump in I camp more like the ones you mentioned it's a little too early 90 point is that so sometimes it is healthy I guess when you're trying to collaboratively pick out projects that might be harmful for industry so when you have enough knowledge sharing amongst more people

And you know that actually result in you know catching scam projects or you know problematic things but sometimes you know I think that I also have side effects where there might be a good project or you know somebody who is actually help trying to help the industry become a scapegoat for being blame for something that all right so no idea just how the world works and we have to take part and try to create a much more inclusive community try to hear each other out try to be more positive about what other people are thinking and if there are some wrong

Reasonings we try to correct that and and it's interesting to also means sorry to cut you off but obviously there are can lead speakers for different camps right now we see this literally proven on in social media for example leading out certain narratives really pushing for the the investments they've made and the you know the followers that they have so do you think that also there's an inherent question mark over these kinds of stuff of interest because of investment as opposed to you know technological focus I'm sure there's a mix of everything in

It from all around where you know you had kind of a you know Bitcoin people where they weren't fond of the area and you had hearing people who weren't fond of the you know um you know locked 82.0 family and you have watching 3.0 crowd to not accept some of the newer projects that came out in like 2019 for example so you know I think it's just kind of how the world works again yeah it's such a realist and I really appreciate that mean so let's take that crypto cloud away from the conversation the heavies and let's talk about revenue let's talk about the future for you and really

Focus on looking that people know that you're in that upward trajectory in terms of focus in terms of building in terms of potential in terms of movement forward in even empirical evidence of growth tell us all the positive stuff that's that's now and in the future with regard to your business structure your business model despite being decentralized are you also planning on you know producing revenue I mean so you have to look at it this way the icon network itself it was never meant to be a revenue generating this is a network it it's just shared commodity

It's a shared asset amongst all the participants in the network's no no the icon foundation did the token sale in order to jumpstart this this whole you know the network in itself and like by putting in the technology that was necessary in the government system this is necessary to do in order to get it lifted off the ground the next part is ok so we do have you know we call the icon foundation that you know that the token sale the icon foundation it doesn't need to exist tomorrow it doesn't need to you know after and everything else decentralized it is

Actually the communities on board however the icon foundation won't take part and being one of the no operators in order to secure the network in the future maybe once we feel that there are you know stronger you know decentralization we more participants and events like smarter you know we got the pure EPS or super Manila Costa activity are helping to build a couple of the icon Network yes I mean icon foundation could actually disappear and you know I'll be very happy for that mmm-hmm that could happen but until then the icon foundation well you know earn

Block rewards you know with people's votes so it will be part of network so when you're talking about the actual revenue model that is one of the I guess the icon foundations way of survivorship for the next few years there are other methods that you know the icon foundation if we want to survive you know we can you can do but you know I think we haven't even discussed that or we're just so focused on Phil of India what it was in our light paper no no no that's that for the the actual for-profit entity called icon Luke that it's in South Korea that is

Actually the company is building all the 1940 the network you know we're actually building applications on top of the icon networks so you know and where we could actually getting to get into contractual relationship with governments within a prime is to actually get them on board into the icon network so they can actually make revenues doubt based and just interrupt their mean that's one of the reasons why I always looked into your technology because I knew you had that focus on how you're going to sustain yourselves once you release a decentralized code for the world

Effectively you know because obviously going to have to need a means to sustain yourselves and the loop is one way to do that but I did want to pull it back down to one very tough topic and that is token economic modeling for either of you because it's not only is it tough but it really requires a bit of a two correlations between token value as a utility and ecosystem value whether that be the open source code whether that you know be reflection on the foundation there needs to be some sort of semblance for those trust the nature of the utility so can you give us some

Confidence that there is some sort of architect architecture or some sort of thinking being put into this you know deep thinking so that it isn't just you know a fundraising mechanism from the start but it actually has the same value as you go with it so I'll let Ricky get into a little bit more details but um you know in our white paper we have women go to our white paper we have some idea of how the icon incentive scoring system is what's going to work so IISS it's basically a if you know it's a model to actually incentivize the the token economy of the icon network and

You know without putting we have some idea but of course I have to read that the token in a fundraise we were able to bring in some of them bones you know smartest people to actually come in and started modeling these token economics and you know I think in some cases I think about okay yeah a lot of the other networks were able to launch a lot more quick quickly than the icon network because you know they've adopted something they're very simple which in my opinion could work but I don't think it's is a little bit too simple for the real world like to be incentivized how

Do we like to work and how we like to cover so we actually built a very very sophisticated model like using different variables and we brought in you know PhDs from different universities to actually build out being small so we actually ran these models you know maybe I mean I can't even I don't even know like thousands and thousands of times to get the right measure to get the right Santa to make sure the model is is as perfect as you can be and we will continually be refining them all but you know I just wanted to get it out there that you know the icons model you

Know we've worked on it or or a couple of years you know where we would not be launching IAS next month we actually have another token that model working right now but they'll be officially launched next month unless we had the confidence that they talking model what's going to work yeah so I think like men said you can do basically anything what you have governance laid out and we've done I think very very good job there as far as like getting to your question on like value Tillet ii you know from my perspective you know something's dial

You comes from what you can do with it exactly you know there are some things right now on our platform that you can use icx to report is it as much as I personally like no but I think that it's growing at peace now with this governance design and when it's launched fully can really be an exponential pace just given the amount of capital injection you can provide for entrepreneurs outside of that I think just the overall token economics are designing Imus taking mechanism will be sort of best-in-class become previously and then there are some aspects that we

Talked about earlier interesting parts of the blockchain space that you know I would personally like to pursue maybe it's from like an icy air station one of you but you know defy is an interesting concept I think I'm gonna build sort of access credit even if it's in the Hobart collateralised capacity sort of a foundation for any sort of economy and like I said we need to find use cases for the ice ax token me like to focus on sort of crypto natives near term and then longer entering the game is you know on board as many governments and enterprises that will

Take collaborative patience I'm Ricky I think that many of the prominent exchanges certainly agree with you we're seeing finance for example move into more open conversations with with agents in that defy industry and sector given that I wanted to move into the conversation of exchanges not a popular topic for men I would imagine as founder because again it's not about trying to FOMO this it's not certainly not about to try and you know send messages to people that there's going to be a pump coming it's not at all about in terms of liquidity you know given that this is

Also a relevant part of the conversation of the overall model that we see emerging as a crypto industry itself is is the liquidity of icon you know as you would like it to be do you have the right the exchange support do you feel or what is to come from you to your knowledge in terms of you know how have exchanges been knocking on your door to a to bolster and support more liquidity so I think though I can't speak specifically of any particular exchange but I will say as part of my role responsibilities my goal is to provide as much access to the icx token from

Retail or external stakeholders perspective and all geographies well said almost practiced so gentlemen as a final statement because we've talked touched on so many different things what's the big picture for Icahn what's the thing that you know really your passion most passionate about drive this ecosystem forward to let people know about the perhaps they don't know when it comes to the real integrity the real value and the real potential of icon Ricky if we could start with you go for it mate what's the things you really want to clarify I would just say that uh

I think we you know a lot of points we're honestly really not ashamed of making it through the bear market we feel actually like pretty proud there are a lot of products out that haven't made as much progress that we have we're at the final stages of decentralization everything seems to be going very very well as Ben said pre building launched last night and we already have 11 percent of the network state I think that shows you know within 24 hours how excited our community is to see where this is going I think you know after that we're gonna start to sort of

Refine what the next steps are for the foundation and from a roadmap perspective and we hope to you provide some clarity once we finalize eep-eep and EBP and interchain and we were really excited about like where things could head over the next sort of 6 to 12 months and everything like ricky that you're also not being you know really fine i really specific but you're just making me making it clear that you're the whole team's constantly nuts in that con that frame of mind of building you know collaboratively people putting everything out on the table on that

Drawing board and just working through what is certainly you know potentially doable but all about again driving forward the real utility in the real the real value not simply just narrative after narrative so I do appreciate that may now I mean with you obviously right from the outset you've always been very very very candid about your position you've always said that you know you want to build out this decentralized platform you want to be for the people by the people are you on track mate and you know what's the thing that really drives you forward yeah so I mean will

Be more we promise this interoperability I mean that is our end goal we haven't digress from that whole not one bit it's just that there are proper status in order to reach that end goal so and I think one of the biggest questions that we always get and one of our you know our biggest headaches I have to say is that we always get a lot of questions on interoperability or anything and you know I think when we wrote them paper we've looked at the the market 5-10 years ten years from the time we moved around paper so you know we have a

Lot of pieces and a lot of work that needs to come and come together in order to kind of build out that future so you know we're always looking at how we're gonna connect not only icon network with other networks but even in our network with another enterprise blockchains that we've been basically building out for other you know consortiums for you so this coming is just you know we're taking the proper steps and you know things like network security is way more important today and operability you know there's a lot of technology that goes into a token economics and

Governance structure is much more important today than interoperability but once we have that down you know we will slowly move towards probability in color you know yes so the Foundation's getting the foundation right it's a very interesting sort of way of looking at things and you're being very forthright about making sure that you don't mess up the real integrity and that is making sure that the governance is fought on more than ever that's the focus this year in 2019 gentlemen I wish you all the very best as you continue to really showcase the

Focus now of governance to build out towards interoperability you know it's great to hear that there's a real support for authentic decentralized technologies in concert with private and public systems certainly your us you know you're focusing on both sides of the agenda and yes go ahead men come so there's one more thing that I wanted to mention aside from that is you know this is I've been a founder and entrepreneur for for a long time and you know there's a lot of things that we could do for short-term gains and I've done that I play that in the past and what I

Realized is that you always have to focus on building long-term value and I think you've kind of briefly touched upon that is that you know I think we're not in this market for the next two years we want to be in here for the next 10 years next 20 years next hundred years we want to build something that is very lasting and in order to do that you have to build it right and building it right takes you know pace time and it takes a lot of energy to get it get some you know you don't have something small get some feedback from people to help you know

You have to rebuild it before we launch it to the public so you know I think that's something that you know you don't see from a lot of projects out there you see it from you know some more mature products like maybe hearing a logical complaint I hear mistaking forever we do for a 32-point okay you know we fully understand the importance of that that you have to get it right and I mean that's exactly what my content I think we I think we want to move you know much faster than some of the other projects at the same time you know I think I want everyone to understand that really you

Don't want to just create short-term that are you awful absolutely I mean essentially if we want to use the analogy of a you know a car yard for example or a car an auto shop you know you're all about building the engine you know you're making sure your whole team is spending time really tweaking that to make sure that governance out you know – the beauty of interoperability it's all conditioned by the quality of your tech and while some others are sitting and sitting in there very very souped-up shells with no engine at all and literally sitting in their car lot with

No motion so I do understand what you mean I think a lot of people can understand that your engine focused you want to get this right right from the you know those building blocks right from the mechanics and then really go for it from there in the future so gentlemen thank you for being so real thank you for being so candid and let us know what's happening right now in icon I'd love to catch up again if you'll have me to get more updates in the future so we can start to look at that empirical evidence of your growth you know of your applicator all the

Applications are onboarding of the the private the loop side of things as well as you know that entity builds as well there's so many different go parts to this ecosystem that you're building but what matters is that then the narrative or decentralization is strong in icon that's great thank you thank you're very welcome take care guys and hope you see

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