How to Earn Bitcoin – Bitcoin Back while Shopping – Alex Adelman from Lolli

by birtanpublished on October 1, 2020

everybody what is going on it is crypto
Bobby I hope you are having a great day
great night wherever you are watching or
listening from and excited to have the
first of what I hope will be a number of
actually in-person conversations and I
am with Alex from wali and some of you
guys might have heard me talking on
crypto happy-hour previously about lolly
but out of super-high level it is right
now in my opinion basically the easiest
way to to earn pretty much free Bitcoin
and to I guess give a little bit of a
back story I downloaded the lolly chrome
plug-in on my desktop I went bought
three t-shirts at bonobos and a few
minutes later I have five dollars worth
of Bitcoin that I would not have gotten
otherwise so I got to turn it to you
Alex what is the sorcery behind being
able to shop online and essentially
getting pretty Bitcoin yeah first of all
thanks for being a user so we it's
pretty simple model we partner with
merchants and the merchants pay us when
our users shop their sites and then we
split that Commission with our users
sending Bitcoin to their lollies wallets
awesome so I think one of the I guess
things that it's somewhat familiar with
and I think you even had some experience
working there working with that company
was was Ebates it's kind of like the
bitcoin version of of Ebates for those
that are familiar with that right so yes
a Bitcoin that so Ebates is sort of one
of the oldest companies in the space
they've been around for I think about 20
years now
early early internet company like pre
comm and my team and I the same team
from lolly created a company about seven
years ago called cosmic and what cosmic
did is we built this ecommerce gateway
that let retailers sell their products
anywhere and people buy anywhere in
different channels so we went through
two acquisitions but in our second
acquisition Ebates came along and
acquired us so we worked there for a
year learned a lot of their roadmap how
how it works and thought that Ebates is
an incredible company for distributing
cash to people for free and we thought
well why couldn't we do this with
Bitcoin so yeah basically rebuilt
the core components of Ebates changed a
few things for security and privacy that
I don't think everybody in that sort of
space things about but people in new
Bitcoin space demand and then we have we
launched it it's called lolly and and
yeah we're rolling awesome and so for
for people that aren't familiar with it
I know I gave like a tiny little bit of
a background how do you use lolly like
what is what's kind of the the main
premise of somebody who's not familiar
with it at all would go through to start
using lolly and then end up with with
Bitcoin so the way that you start is you
go to lolly comm lol ell I calm and you
download the Chrome Safari we're about
to launch Firefox extension and this
extension like lives in your browser and
what it's essentially doing is when we
have over 750 merchants on the platform
and when it goes to a merchant site it
identifies it crosses it says this is a
merchant partner we are going to make
sure that this partner knows that this
shopper in the shopper ID is shopping on
the site when that sort of connection
activates what we do is that the
retailer tracks that and make sure that
that you get credit for it that lolly
gets credit for it and then we then so
you just shop as you normally would it
was really it's very simple you activate
the extension when you wind up on
Walmart on jad on Priceline and and then
you purchase as you normally would what
we're doing in the background is we get
this report saying that this activation
occurred and then we pair it with with
your user account and then we reward you
in Bitcoin and one of the I think one of
the interesting things about it for me
is like it's not outside of the like
typical kind of outside of just having
to download the Chrome extension it's
not there's no there's nothing really
different about the shopping experience
like you're not even paying in crypto
you're not paying in Bitcoin or anything
like that so there's no element of
friction from there you're still paying
with a credit card or debit card or
whatever it might be so I think that's
pretty interesting just from like a user
perspective but when you I just look at
like why people should use lolly I think
when
when people traditionally think about
like Bitcoin the two ways to acquire
Bitcoin you have mining Bitcoin which is
basically out of the the technical scope
of most people and also the economic
scope scope of most people they don't
know what an ASIC is they don't want to
involve themselves with it and they
can't afford power yada yada yada then
you also have the investment standpoint
of actually going ahead and buying
Bitcoin this is kind of maybe a new wave
of like a third option in some respects
where you're kind of earning Bitcoin for
just the actions that you're taking is
that right that yeah you nailed it so
like I look at the evolution of Bitcoin
adoption and different phases we clearly
need miners to you know create and find
the Bitcoin and then the next phase is
the investors but if you look at like
the investing market very few people in
the world actually invest have the money
to invest the sort of liquidity and risk
aptitude to to invest the next phase I
think has to be just a bigger market so
you know some people played around with
tasks like everybody you know takes to
ask everybody you know works and so
that's one way but then you're assigning
value to it by labor we you know given
our experience with e-commerce and
shopping one thing we know that's true
is everybody shops like no matter how
much money you have how little money you
have everybody shops and you know I
think you and I probably the same page
and just believing that bitcoins very
early right now yeah and there's still a
lot of upside and and so if you can earn
five dollars in cash with you know a
platform where you can earn five dollars
in Bitcoin our thesis is that a lot of
the world has been even if you don't
believe in Bitcoin your interest has
been piqued by Bitcoin and a lot of like
our users that are like surveying them
that we're not previously bitcoiners
they see it as like it just it's it's a
lottery ticket yeah like it's it could
be this hope of something more and five
dollars in cash is like not gonna change
their world like but five dollars in
Bitcoin could potentially change their
world down the road and and so they get
really excited about that
then it gets it's our opportunity to
educate them on principles because sure
everybody like sort of initially when
they get into Bitcoin gets really
excited by price and it is exciting like
it's it's like a roller coaster ride
but it if you were investing in like a
highly volatile stock it gets a little
like stressful for some people and so I
think that like for me at least bitcoin
always sort of like the principles of
Bitcoin has really what excited me and
the price was just you know the ups and
downs and mostly ups over the last like
several years you know kept me
interested because it was so volatile so
I almost look at like price as a as a
way to capture attention yeah
and then it's our job which I it's our
job to educate people along the way so
telling people hey you just earned this
either's bitcoin what does that mean and
like why is it important to you why is
self sovereign banking self so have an
identity like why is that important
so I sort of looked like the evolution
of the space going into breaking down
like banking functions for the consumer
you like be your own bank like you have
to take functions of what a bank does
and one thing a bank does is like I've
been cashback its interest it's a lot of
different components so yeah it's a days
but it's been good so far yeah it's kind
of funny because I was I was thinking
about that before like with I told some
people I think on the crypto happy hour
I bought the three t-shirts through
bonobos I think was like 60 or 70 bucks
and then I got four I think was four
dollars and change back but when you
look at the four dollars and fifty cents
like if you were to do that through some
other type of cashback system I guess
fine is cash but having it through
Bitcoin and obviously I have other money
outside of four dollars and fifty cents
in Bitcoin but if Bitcoin were to have
some type of like meteoric rise again or
something like that not saying that
that's the only reason that you could do
this but that $4 is now maybe half off
the t-shirts or obviously you could use
it wherever else you want to but it's
kind of funny that I think you know you
had mentioned that people especially
looking at it kind of like a lottery
ticket of hey this is this is probably
or this might have a chance of actually
going a lot further than then cash would
but one thing that you had said that I
think was just kind of like interesting
in general was you know how I guess how
the speculative mania of a Bitcoin
happens
do you see any correlation just between
like new user signups and what happens
when you know the Bitcoin market goes
goes up significantly or even like the
best like week or so when Bitcoin went
from like $4,000 to $5,000 was there any
type of like notable increase of usage
on lolly or is there any type of you
know more more signups that you've seen
yes so it seems like we're coming out
hopefully coming out of a bear market
right now and when we launched we were
in like the heart of the bear market so
I think it was good to launch in a bear
market for one there wasn't a lot of
like noise I think everything had like
sort of died down and when we came out
you know along with like several other
like amazing companies I think Casa is
doing like some really cool stuff like
Lightning Network yeah and and so we all
sort of like I guess emerge honey miners
cool like all these sort of companies
like you merged from this like bear
market and I think we after talking to a
few of these people in the space it was
sort of like a nice quiet time to just
like build and get the product right and
really understand like who our customer
was even in the early days we were
getting these sort of crypto curious or
bitcoin curious like customers that
would come in they were just like I
wanted Bitcoin but I wouldn't want to
invest because it's too hard and with
lolly you just put in your email you
start earning it's just like so similar
to other applications you're really just
making a choice to one Bitcoin or cash
yeah and so yeah I think launching fair
market was good we you know hopefully
entering like a bull a bull run or bull
market we have seen an increase in usage
and increase in purchasing people sort
of like you know a lot of people say
like buy the dip and then we say earn
the dip and but it's really like one of
the cool things about lolly is something
that probably people should be doing
anyway with any sort of investing in a
long term asset which is sort of this
like dollar cost averaging along the way
and if you're everybody buys stuff
online if you're purchasing the things
that you need you know it's our job to
bring those to you but you know if your
brand groceries it's like why not use
lolly it's you know if you're going and
traveling like why not use lolly there's
just about like every category
we've created and every single time
you're like dollar cost averaging along
the way whether it goes up or down so
yeah it's really nice to see sort of
like a nice uptick in users and then
uptick in in people actually earning
yeah that's funny too like putting it to
like the dollar cost average because
that's something I always like people
always on the just like on the YouTube
channel generally are reaching out and
like hey what like I have a thousand
dollars like what do I do with it I was
like I don't know I'll put in 200 bucks
today I put in 200 bucks next week or
what just spread it out so if the price
of Bitcoin goes down 25% in an hour
which it definitely could you know you
don't end up burning all your money but
with the respective dollar cost
averaging it's almost like it kind of
like an acorns approach for anybody
who's like familiar with that or some of
the other applications I think some
people have tried to do with crypto as
well but like you know if you go and you
buy a cup of coffee and it's 375 and it
takes so you know 25 cents and throws
into an investment account it's kind of
a similar type of approach but it's I
think probably a little bit more like
it's just a little bit bigger P as it's
you know not just 25 cents you're
talking about like I mean in the case of
a t-shirt or I mean you have pretty
pretty expensive like merchants on the
platform as well if you're looking at
like buying a vacation with Priceline or
buying a TV on jet comm or whatever but
to that point like what are some of the
most popular merchants that like case
you've seen so far in the platform there
any that like people here love or have
just you know gotten a ton of usage from
you guys yeah absolutely
so travels been really big for us I
think a lot of people are like traveling
for work and they're using like Hilton
Marriott and their works paying for it
and they're getting Bitcoin totally
legal and I guess yeah and and I
remember like when I was at eBay it's
like that was a big thing as like a lot
of people would like would would email
in or would they would like send in
these videos and they that's like people
just like stack cash using like their
word count so Hilton Marriott it's been
really big for us
Priceline has been huge and then book
booking calm booking calms interesting
you have to go to lolly calm like the
site to accesses so a lot of people
don't realize that we have them but
booking.com is like one of the best I
mean you can book everywhere they have
like
yeah really good rates yeah that's been
really good for us and then ever lane
which I was one of my favorite retailers
and we're you know it really is unique
because it's it's such a cater to a
young audience so I think it shows a lot
of these other brands like like largely
we got gap because we got ever late
people were shopping at every and it's a
co transparent apparel company they're
very clear with like how they price
everything what they where they make it
everything like that
and every Lane was like our top single
brand merchants I think to this day and
and so we got to go to gap and we got to
say hey you know there's brands that are
similar to you that are attracting a
younger audience that are you know
taking your share like do you want to
come on board yeah and so we've you know
I think we've done a good job of
bringing on more merchants to based on
our our top merchants the other couple
are like the essentials so we have
Walmart jet and overstock have been
amazing people are like stacking with
groceries that jet has been like the big
thing brand lists as well
so essentials travel and then like a few
like single brand merchants I've been
great
what's it like going to these retailers
and talking to them a little bit about
like just Bitcoin and like what you do
in general and maybe is does the
conversation end up moving a little bit
to bitcoiners it just kind of move to
that you know that the customers that
you can bring to those people
essentially the latter like at first I
mean I think a lot of these merchants
they definitely have questions about
Bitcoin they want to learn more about it
but the simplest way to describe Bitcoin
to them has just been points yeah it's
international points without borders and
and it makes sense to a lot of people
they're like you know that you can spend
Bitcoin at a lot of different places you
can exchange it it's an investment which
you know they were there they understood
with something like acorns and so it's
it's not so like foreign to them I think
as a lot of people think we've had to do
it I think a pretty good job of like
positioning it but once you start to
position it just something that they
know and love like they love points yeah
then it doesn't look all too different
than like a cash back program or a
points program
and really like what they're looking for
as you said is they're looking for a new
new customers so you know I'm pretty
active on Twitter and I share a lot
about the inner workings of our business
and one of the things I'm very like
adamant about is like you if you believe
in Bitcoin you need to shop with your
dollars and if you can choose a retailer
that supports Lalli that supports
Bitcoin then it's net good for the
ecosystem every time that they see that
a customer is moving away from a
competitor and to them or they have what
they call incremental revenue for us
it's just like okay well I can shop at
VRBO instead of Airbnb they have the
same listings yeah like I'm gonna go do
it ever lane instead of you know
retailer X like every time that you can
shift your dollars over they get excited
and then everybody should know that in
the background what I'm saying is I'm
going to these retailers that are not on
the platform and I'm saying you need to
adopt Bitcoin because this community is
active and they like they want you know
people to adopt Bitcoin and they will
vote with their dollars and so that's
sort of been the the I think the game on
our end of like going to merchants
getting them on board and then
leveraging the traction to get more
merchants on board and we've I mean
we've attracted the interest of like
Amazon of Airbnb of all these these
massive companies that do not probably
have any business talking with us if
just like how small we are in scale to
an Ebates
or any of these other like cashback
programs but are their interest is
piqued because it is this new customer
base yeah that they have never been able
to identify and they want to attract
that makes I think that makes a ton of
sense especially when you consider like
a lot of the like you said that I guess
the the people that are typically most
interested in that the age group and
even like when I look at like my YouTube
analytics and things like that like it's
it's a very very young I would say
dynamic of like between typically like
between like 20 and 35 and maybe it's
because I'm in that age as well so you
know people identify with me in that
respect but that's interesting to hear
like that is driving certain things but
when you you've mentioned a couple other
retailers
that sounds like we're also interested
do you have like one most requested
retailer that you guys don't offer right
now that you know that that everybody is
kind of clamoring for would love to see
on on lolly
Amazon's the biggest yeah we didn't pull
the other day and it was something crazy
it was like 90% out of all the options
was Amazon that's funny and I think that
makes sense I do find it kind of funny
that you know this you know this
community that we're in is all about
decentralization yeah
and clear hall centralized around like
you know this one organization that we
think needs to provide everything for us
when really like if you if you shop with
other retailers you know that everyone's
caught up largely like I mean I
completely switch over to jet since we
launched yeah and I haven't looked back
like there's not there's not a really
big difference I haven't had any
customer support issues it gets to my
door in a couple days like if not same
day if I really want it to but it's
changing my behavior just part I'm
biased but like yeah changing my
behavior and what we've heard on Twitter
and from our users and customer support
you don't have to like you make a giant
decision to change your behavior you
just like look at a new retailer or
start shopping there and then it's you
realize like you're getting Bitcoin like
this retailer supports the Bitcoin
community
it's like net good for Bitcoin so yeah I
think I think Amazon is the biggest
we're talking with the right people
there we've you know back channeled like
to all these c-level executives through
our investors and through friends that
over the last seven years being in the
space and we're definitely talking with
the right people
and I am confident that at some point
they will adopt lolly and I'm actually
like surprised with how interested they
are to be perfectly honest right now
just given you know how small we are
but the bigger we get and the more that
we shift away from Amazon they they take
notice to that if you just look at like
cashback programs Ebates is about the
only cash back program that they work
with outside of their own loyalty
programs and so it means a lot to that
they're even considering us and like
asking about you know our information of
like you know generalized anonymize
information of course but like how many
sales are we driving away to similar
partners
and that like scares them a little bit
especially when it's just like rabid
like excited community that really like
like is loud and vocal if you look at
like our Twitter channel versus Ebates
Twitter channel it's just like I get
like one like we have yeah like hundreds
and like people get excited they like
really are passionate about earning
Bitcoin and retailer adoption yeah
that's that's awesome I do think it it
is interesting just like generally
speaking outside of lolly like the
passion of like the Bitcoin community as
a whole whether it's you know shopping
and earning Bitcoin back or if it's some
other type of you know some other type
of thing but it's just such like a
passionate community that if you can
like do a good job appealing to that
community like it gives you a lot of
steam and I think even like you see it
with like squares cash app and just like
the way Jack Dorsey is kind of
approached Bitcoin and kind of like
advocating for it as a very public
figure so it's been kind of fun to watch
that but as you look at like the the
Bitcoin or crypto space are there any
companies outside of like lolly that you
look at and think you know they're doing
like extreme I know you mentioned before
Casa on lightning but is there anybody
else that you look at that you think
he's just doing like some really
interesting work that's that's kind of
fascinating you at the moment yeah I
mean I think cash app is like one of my
absolute favorites yeah I think we start
to look pretty similar at a certain
point given they're doing boosts and all
that good stuff but it's you know net
good for the Bitcoin ecosystem so I'm
happy on that front I yeah I think um
let's say my favorites one of these like
decentralized projects that we're sort
of looking to like wasabi wallet I think
is amazing you know I think like you
know I really like the idea of like coin
join how you can and like a lot of our
users are using that people ask about
like privacy user you know we just take
email but yeah when you awkward you put
in your name
very minimal like kyc at the end not
really kyc but when people will ask
about like privacy and a lot and you
know we recommend like look if that's
big concern of yours you can send it to
wasabi wallet you can do a coin join
like mix it up and then send it to
another wallet and so yeah we I really
like you know what they're doing and
then there's other projects too even
like outside a Bitcoin that I think we
can look towards as being like really
cool I think Madame masque is like
amazing in a lot of respects of how it
connects the consumer like there's a lot
I think they need to work on but oh yeah
the way it connects to websites I look
at Bitcoin getting to that point and
that's one of our goals too like we want
to connect the the actual wallet with
the merchants so we're in a very unique
position and so we're taking sort of
bits of inspiration from the crypto
world a lot of inspiration from the
payments world sort of that's you know
part of the inspiration for for lolly
was like a lot of our pain points but in
building our last company cosmic and
that's one of the one of the many
reasons we love Bitcoin is because of
all of the middlemen and like like the
mess that is the payment industry that
is like banking industry and how many
just like how many people are like
taking a cut of the pie that probably
don't need to yeah yeah so yeah sort of
like the direction I think we're like
lolly goes you know and talking about
that is you know we are at the
intersection of like merchants adoption
I think we have more merchants like
actual merchants partnerships than just
about anybody right now
and we also have consumer wallets and
when you start to think about where does
like lolly evolve where does Bitcoin
evolve right now I think a lot of people
are looking at lolly and Bitcoin as an
investment tool like you're earning
Bitcoin no one has really asked to spend
it but eventually you know once you have
accumulated a lot of Bitcoin and that
Bitcoin can be used as expending power
and you've survived a few bull and bear
cycles you start to see like okay well I
by spending and I can make it and you
know I can get out of it or I can get in
it or whatever it is we want to be at
that intersection so that we can go to
Walmart in a couple years and say hey
Walmart we've sent you a hundred million
dollars in revenue
like we want you to accept Bitcoin and
we have all the customers that would
want to spend Bitcoin because we have
the most active retailer focus wallet
and then that that user could buy more
Bitcoin to spend it and I look at like
like I think a lot about incentives
incentive structures in technology and
pricing and in everything and you know
business models and I think one way that
like lolly is uniquely positioned is we
have the positioning to potentially beat
a credit card company we have the
margins from marketing that we're
already you know we've built these deep
partnerships in and the further down the
funnel we can get into the margins of
payments and we can go to a retailer
that's spending half a billion dollars a
year on credit card fees like we could
say hey we can remove a lot of that we
can decrease fraud we can decrease
charge backs that becomes like way more
similar to our last company where that's
what we did best is come in and build
really deep you know integration
retailer solutions and so that's what
I'm really excited about in sort of the
future the next five years for for lolly
yeah it's awesome to hear and that was
kind of something I was I was gonna ask
his kind of the way the way you're
starting off now it's it's obviously I
don't really think it's it's it's been
done or hasn't been done super well yet
and I feel like you guys have come in at
a good time and have executed really
well but I mean at the at the point it's
somewhat simplistic but looking at the
way that just kind of not treating it
just as as kind of like a Bitcoin cash
back program but looking at the ways you
can kind of further involve yourself in
like the payment stack is is pretty
interesting and I do think it's it's
kind of smart as well because like right
now I think a lot of people or there's
always the debate of like you know
bitcoin is a store of value or bitcoin
is this peer-to-peer electronic cash
that people can use and spend and things
like that there there are definitely
issues and they're kind of arguments
both ways and things like that
but kind of taking this approach and
allowing almost like time to build up
lolly and and kind of your company and
the the marketing and just like customer
relationships and merchant relationships
and then allowing you know some of them
maybe core technology to develop I think
sounds like a you know real
solid strategy one thing that I'm kind
of curious about is I think bitcoin
traditionally and everybody always
complains about it is just like the poor
user experience for a lot of like
Bitcoin and not just Bitcoin to like
crypto related products like the user
experience the user interface is usually
trash it's not good a lot of people
complain about it and say like you know
that the industry needs that I think
even square with their like kind of I
wanna say nonprofit but the the
individuals that are like working on a
almost like Bitcoin pro bono basis they
have I think they're they're hiring like
a UI or UX engineer or something like
that you guys have done pretty good job
I think with the user experience what
have you I guess have you learned
anything from from companies previously
working like the Bitcoin space that you
think may have been like lacking in that
and if you try to like creating tip of
differentiation there with with how you
are doing things now and what you're
looking to do in the future yeah so you
know we've had to make a lot of
decisions about what do we do that's
true to Bitcoin and what do we do that
sort of helps people with mass adoption
and it's this constant you know talk
about with other like you know founder
friends and and in-product friends and
it's it's this tough decision like you
you want to give everyone in the world
noncustodial wallets and you want to
teach them about you know how do you
know hold your keys and like proper key
management but you can't do that
overnight I just I'm not in that camp
that just believes that we should never
teach people about it it's like it can't
be this like 50 year you know timeframe
of like educating people about about
Bitcoin you need to teach people about
Bitcoin now I mean I didn't learn you
know I learned with a custodial wallet
and I'm like happy I did it it sets you
down the rabbit-hole
to realize like okay this is what
bitcoin is and it goes back to like what
we were saying earlier with principles
you once you get your first Bitcoin you
know you and you see it go up and down
and you see like okay my five dollars
was ten dollars what if I had had a
hundred dollars like that might pique
somebody's interest it doesn't matter
what wallet that's in because then you
start to think well 100 dollars is a lot
of money and then you have a thousand
dollars and you put more money in and
then you like a thousand dollars a lot
of money
how should I be protecting that money
who has it like why is that important
then you start to look into the security
practices you start to look in privacy
mechanisms key management systems hmm
that's how I look at like lolis product
evolving but you have to start like with
the custodial wallet and then you can
evolve from from there so we sort of I
would say like we learned a lot from
coinbase I think coinbase you know has
done a really great job and you know
there's plenty of things I could sit
here and criticize them on they but they
were first like you know they had in a
lot of ways first mover advantage but
then there was the only companies like
your grandma or grandpa and potentially
used when it does come to like Bitcoin
or cryptocurrency I think it's like you
could yeah you could sit and nitpick a
lot of different things for sure but
like just the plain user experience in
like coinbase itself is pretty damn good
yeah it's it's hard being first and I
think like we've learned a lot about the
criticisms that they've had and we've
you know realized you know things like
on our product roadmap we've you know
triage certain things that we probably
wouldn't have triage it because we saw
the community like you know go yell at
coinbase and we're like oh okay like we
should yeah so in a way I think I look
at us as having a good second mover
advantage by seeing like how the spaces
evolved already so hopefully like you
know it you know our goal would be to
have the next hundred million to 500
million users adopt Bitcoin through
lolly and I think we have the right
tools to do that and the right and set
of mechanisms for people to come in like
very low friction and start earning when
they shop and yep we've learned a lot
from from other companies in space
awesome and you know just looking at
what we've covered so far is there
anything maybe that I didn't ask that
you want to you know tell people about
or anything about well Holly that we
didn't cover at all no this has been
there's been great I mean I always love
like bragging on my team I think my
team's incredible I'm building it with
like a head of eight of us set seven of
seven of us built cosmic together so we
have an awesome team we're growing
pretty fast so yeah we are going to be
bringing on more people both on like
customer support
I'm proud of like our customer support
team and um basically that you know you
talked about what have we learned from
companies and I think a lot of people
would say like you yes we've learned a
lot about like from about privacy we've
learned a lot about like how to handle
you know certain like non-kiss overcook
custodial like technology storage all
this good stuff but one big thing that
we've definitely learned is that a lot
of the first the first wave of crypto
companies didn't really scale up
customer support and I think they
suffered because of that there's still
bad blood if you've ever lost any amount
of Bitcoin like you forever distrust
this company and and so we've had to
have really good customer support we've
I'm very proud of I am very proud of our
whole team but customer support like if
you have any issue like for instance if
you didn't get your Bitcoin for whatever
reason if you had like an ad blocker and
it blocked your you know your cookie and
bonobos didn't give you your money you
reached out to our support team we we
like go talk to bonobos we're like hey
like you know this is an issue and we
solve it really quickly that's all and I
think you have to do that for the
beginning with any company but
especially in the Bitcoin with a Bitcoin
company you can't compromise customer
experience and you more so when there's
like this almost like like magnifying
glass on you like you we have to be
better than any consumer fiat company
you you have to like position Bitcoin as
being this like safe incredible
experience like beautiful thing and you
can't do that if you're like having this
shitty time like you know talking to
customer support and they don't get back
to you for a month like I'm really
excited for like sort of building that
team out it's been really fun yeah I
didn't even honestly I didn't even think
of that but like I'm glad you can have
any customer support especially in like
2017 but even like now I just remember
like seeing the threads on Twitter and a
lot of it was exchanges but also other
places as well but when there's like you
know real money involved the real
Bitcoin involved and people are getting
locked out or whatever it might be and
there's just been so many issues with
with customer support and then scaling
customer support when things really went
haywire
taking that approach from day one it's
super smart because I feel like having a
measured you know measured understanding
of what it takes and and things there is
it seems like there are a lot of
companies that had no customer support
whatsoever and then Bitcoin blew up and
went crazy and they hired a ton of
customer support and then like three
months later they're laying off a ton of
customer support as well so they just
like didn't seem to have a handle on it
so like taking that like from where you
guys started to like growing gradually
with that it seems like a real measured
approach which is awesome thank you yeah
and a lot of learnings from Ebates it
has a really flexible customer support
team in like Wisconsin and it it around
the holidays it will like triple just
and so it's like you have to scale up
and down it's its own beast but I think
it's very important for the Bitcoin
space to to think about that early days
yeah for sure and for anybody who is you
know watching this at this point in time
one of the things that I will do is I
will put together a kind of like a
tutorial video so you can see that as
well but if you want to I'll have links
below in the description to Alex's
Twitter as well as to lolly with my
rough link of course so we'll have that
so if you want to check it out
definitely feel free to utilize the
links below but really really appreciate
your time and it's great talking to you
thanks for having me yeah thanks a lot

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