Heavily Tuned AMD Ryzen 5 3600 vs. Intel i5-10400: RAM Timings & Overclocks

by birtanpublished on August 25, 2020

We just spent three days tuning some of the best memory we've ever worked with on the Intel i5 10400 the AMD r5 3600 the a and the r3 3300 ex and a couple of others and the point of all of this was to create a chart that was completely filled from top to bottom with memory

Timings and frequencies as tested particularly on the i-5 10 400 that's because in our 10 400 review we showed that you really shouldn't buy the CPU there is an argument to be made for OAM systems and there's an argument to be

Made for developers or someone who wants an IGP doesn't overclock what ever more basic tasks but for our core audience don't buy it that's what we said in the review and that conclusion was read specifically because you end up losing

Most of the features that a z4 90 board has to offer if you buy it with a z4 90 board but a you buy it because locks doesn't have a K at the end of it but if you buy it with a more appropriate B or H board you lose the memory speed

Options at least past a certain frequency and that ends up killing performance but the arguments that we received from other people online we'll leave it there I guess was that why didn't you just tune the timings you can

Just tune the timings of 2666 or 29:33 to be tighter so we did that got them down to C L 10 420 666 but we also invested equal effort in the competing parts because that's fair before that this video is brought to you by the be

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Pure bass 500 DX at the link in the description below alright so quick back story then again the non Z motherboards historically have been limited to whatever the support frequency is for the processor

Technically not of Intel's processors that we've reviewed lately even support 3200 out of the box that's not like there baseline speck just like a Andes baseline in the past wasn't 3200 things

Have changed but obviously XMP changes that differences that Intel with XMP on B and H motherboards you get the timings you don't get the frequency at least if it's above whatever the limit is that's gonna be 20 666 or 29 33 and the board

And the CPU both play a role and which of those two numbers that'll be both obviously are lower than what you would get on a z series board but you should only really by a Z series board if you're buying a ksq CPU especially this

Generation because intel has invested so much into the overclocking support and the motherboard manufacturers have to and you lose all of that with a non K CPU so we're gonna be revisiting this we had a couple questions asking well what

If you tune to the 10 400 would it then become comparable to a 3600 3300 X whatever it may be and the answer is well I mean yeah but you got a tune the other 1/2 because that's fair so we set a one-day time limit for all these parts

10600 k we had already done the 3600 we needed to do the 3300 x we had already invested about half a day into previously that 10 400 we needed to do so we had a time limit on each of these in a given amount of time and under a

Workday how far could you get the CPU reasonably with its memory so for case Q's and for an these parts that means overclocking everything for the 10 400 that means only overclocking or tuning the memory to the capacity that would be

Supported by our theoretical HIV motherboard in our efforts then to get the 10 400 to clawback its performance lost from our baseline 3214 1414 benchmarks that we do for all of our CP is standardized reviews memory to get it

Back to that level from 2666 we dropped in a kit of $300 memory this is genuinely the most insane memory of ever worked with actually so this is the if you want an F for 4000 C 15 D 16 GTRs it's to 6 of 8 we drop that in there 300

A ram we had to ask g scale for it obviously and worked with it for a while and $300 Ram $180 CPU and then a Maximus 12 extreme motherboard with our AI 510 409 K part we we tuned all of it and the results are

Interesting because even then it's kind of rough for the 10400 but the biggest part is doing equal tuning for everything that's being tested against each other quick important note – we worked with

Basically all of the secondary timings works with all the primary timings tertiary we left about half of them alone and played around with the rest so this it's not just primary timings here the lower-level timings have a massive

Impact on performance especially things like RF C and T fought so those are modified too but we only have so much room in a chart and well if we get an article up with this we'll try to list some more detail for each one let's get

Into the numbers we'll start with hitman 2 since it shows good scaling the 10400 original review numbers had it at 121 FPS average for the 32 hundred megahertz test which assumes by the way a Z 490 motherboard paired with your $180 locked

Non K CPU and it followed with an average of 102 fps for the 2666 more reasonable results as suited for the bnh motherboards the most ridiculous tune we did was 2666 at CL 10 marked as a which took us about half a day or so of worked

Dial in approaching a day on $300 memory including tuning for half of the lower down timings so that be things like Tifa t RF c t– c WL c ke pulse width and all the other stuff alongside those the result was about 117 FPS average for all

Of that work so that's a $300 kit of memory for your $180 CPU i'm presumably a $100 bah motherboard otherwise you'd be running a higher frequency so you can have for all of that performance that outperforms a $120 3300 ex stock CPU

With our standard kit of review memory and it outperforms it by 2.6 percent versus the 3200 CL 14 test that we did for the 3300 X the original 3200 CL 1410 400 results still leads this result by the way by 3.7 percent

So for anyone complaining why we didn't waste literally days manually tuning the timings on CPUs especially one that no one should buy like the 10 400 this is your answer like we said before it's an arms race you can do this for every CPU

That we test we spent another day too the ten 600k to keep it fair and ended up at 147 FPS average the 10400 isn't even close we spent a day tuning the 3600 as well and we got the memory up to 38 66 15 15 15 34 and 1 2 1 2 1 m clock

You clock and f clock that place that 128 FPS average tying a stock 10 600 k cpu at 3,200 CL 14 and outperforming the 10 400 super tuned CL 10 a listing by 9% we spent equal time on both of these CPUs adding a maximum cash ratio to 43

Acts on the 10 400 got us a little bit further gets you to 117 FPS average with the settings on the chart so it still loses by a rough mile assuming 29 33 is supported on B and H boards 410 400 which isn't confirmed we maxed that out

At about 119 FPS average with our D listing at twelve twelve twelve twenty eight so the 3600 still wins here because it's simply open for tuning and overclocking as is the ten 600k if you shoved $300 of ram into the sockets of a

$200 e 490 motherboard for your locked $180 10 400 you can benefit from a 129 FPS average in this bench or you could just buy something that actually makes sense instead like a 10 600 K ram that costs a third of the price and still

Manages 7% more performance at 138 FPS average but to each their own it cost the same for both of those two example configurations f1 is up next another highly scalable title in this one the original review 3200 number landed at

247 FPS average which looks pretty competitive against the stock 3600 226 FPS average until we remember that you can't really OC the RAM on B&H boards historically and at the same time that 3600 is fully unlocked on its platform

The 216 FPS average number is our baseline instead for this with the $300 Trident z kit and our day of investment item a ends up at 242 FPS average it has successfully managed to basically equate our original 3200 CL 14 result and all

It took was just turning TC wlt cket faulty RFC TC ltr' CDT Rast er Str DLT RTP TR e fi t WT RL t WT RS t rd r TS t WR WR and a couple of others that are also a mouthful so we assume that when people asked why we didn't just

Tune the timings this is probably what they had in mind that seems like what they would have thought of so all that done the performance isn't really that exciting at the LOX 2666 megahertz it's clear that frequency

Matters the 3600 with a 40 350 megahertz tune and stuff about equal to the 30 200 megahertz numbers or the heavily tuned 10400 numbers at around 244 FPS average for the 36 at 42 50 for the 36 at 4,400 megahertz that puts us at 247 FPS

Average the 10 600 k meanwhile still roughly outperforms all this stock it's beaten by the C entry though of the 10 400 with 4000 megahertz Ram on Z 490 going against what anyone would actually use of course the 10 600 K with its own

Armaments hits 285 FPS average managing to lead once again the 3300 ex meanwhile has its own tune running at 242 FPS average with cheaper memory less time committed and $120 CPU that's the team that Patrick did for a previous piece

And we didn't spend nearly as much time on it as we did for the rest of these assuming some B H boards can do 29 33 for the 10 400 marked D we've also included that just to be safe and that's at 247 FPS average with a tune there

Under the 43 X ring of Mark II at 2666 CL 10 the 10 400 makes absolutely no sense to buy if you're going to do all of this work and all of this research if you enjoy that stuff that's awesome but please buy an unlocked part even from

AMD or Intel and if it's Intel by his Easter he's bored with it because at this point you're an OC enthusiast and you should be proud of that and it's really fun but getting into all this stuff and then buying into a CPU that

Only lets you change a quarter of the things it just it's a waste of money if you're that type of enthusiast GTA 5 is next the original review results were 106 FPS average with 3200 CL 49z 490 and 97 FPS average for CL 15 20 66

Representing it where we assume being a boards will be stuck in this case the performance gap was only 10% whereas most other games showed a 14 percent performance lead with better ramp dropping to 2666 and cl 10 brought us to

107 FPS average so a jaunt of about 10 percent in exchange for all the work the 3300 X moves from 104 FPS average to 106 FPS average with some pretty basic tuning putting it with an error of the a listing CL 10 results of the $180 10 400

So once again the memory tune alone isn't really enough maxing out with cash ratio 243 the limit of the 10 400 at least on the Z board we use the Maximus extreme that helped us bring our average up to 112 FPS but point 1 percent low is

Sure that frame time consistency was bad and that stability was suspect something we'll look at more in a moment the 46 FPS average number it looks better than reality for 0.1% and we'll show why in a second this game seems more cash starved

Than others as evidenced by the 10 600 K stock 3200 CL 14 average of 114 jumping to 128 from just adjusting the cash ratio nothing else no memory tune no overclock only cash ratio so that's a 12% jaunt for just that change and

That's the only thing we changed there the memory was our standard review memory for that one as we said in the first piece it's an arms race so it doesn't matter if you can overclock or tune the 10 400 because you can also

Overclock or tune the 10 600 K the 3300 X the 3600 and with a worse starting position for the 10 400 and assumed equal time invested in all parts because realistically if you're saying you're going to tune one of these then you'll

Tune the other one the same amount you still shouldn't buy the 10 400 maybe developers could justify it for the IGP but that's about it from our perspective people who need an eye GP sure go for it people who aren't overclocking and even

IGP go for it it's cheaper than the 10 600 K maybe you're not you don't care about high FPS whatever otherwise AMD and Intel have other offerings on either side of it that make more sense now back to the GTA 5 chart a more reasonable

Tune would be mark F 11 13 13 28 which we assume most people would be able to deal with pretty minimal work but that doesn't even reach parity with the 3200 CL 14 kit meanwhile investing equal for it into tuning the 3600 as we did

The 10 400 on a simulated B or H board got us to 116 FPS average right between the 10 600 K results the 10 400 can't keep up on its lower frequency period for the core frequency that is this time especially if you test properly and you

Actually follow tau P l1 and PL to the argument of just tuning the memory goes both ways here and it's not fair to only do it on one platform if that argument is going to be made in favor of the other platform you have to do it on both

As for the framerate issue here's a look at that the frame time plots are the closest representation of player experience interval to interval with lower being better more consistent is best a frame time of about sixteen point

Six six milliseconds would be 60fps but frame rate is an abstraction from the base metric of time so the frame time plot better represents the stutters you would encounter as seen here there are several spikes up to 100 milliseconds

But it's actually way worse than that we just zoomed this chart in for the first run-through so that you could see the beginning of the test here's the real chart we have frame time spikes upwards of nine hundred milliseconds which means

You'd be waiting almost an entire second from one frame to the next the 43 X cash ratio wasn't stable in this test more voltage didn't help so we would just have to lower it to 42 X or lower in this instance but otherwise the

The reason the numbers came out the way they did in the previous chart is because you're averaging multiple runs so thousands and thousands of cells of data but only these couple of frames popped up during all of that so even

With 0.1% lows which get us closer to this we still aren't close enough to see these values and that's why we need the frame time chart shadow of the Tomb Raider is next the review of ten four hundred thirty two hundred number held

155 FPS average allowing to stock ten six hundred K elite of 5.3% the 2666 CL 15 number had us at 135 FPS average equal to the 3300 x stock the 3300 x jumps to 141 FPS average with a lighter tune working for a day on the tertiary

And secondary timings with 10 400 tune we got up to 154 FPS average back to 3200 CL 14 primary levels the 10 6 RK meanwhile demonstrates that it's actually bouncing off of a GPU limit with a simpler tune investing again

Equal average into the 36 hundred tune we end up at 157 FPS average allowing the stock 10600 k elite of 3.7% or the max overclocked in fairness 10600 k is 177 FPS average elite of 13% the 10400 meanwhile ends up

Below the 3600 entirely accepts for its one instance of ridiculously good ram as e 490 board and some tuning work we've pretty much proven the point by now but let's look at one last chart for total wars campaign benchmark in this one the

Original 10 400 results had it at 132 FPS average for 3200 seal 14c for 90 results or a chart bottom in 115 FPS average with a 2666 CL 15 ramp tuning to what we think is unachievable 1113 1328 got us to 125 FPS average a bump of 13%

Over the 2666 CL 15 result that's cool and it does aid the argument of the 10 400 but only if you ignore that you can also overclock every other part of the bench doing the same work for the 3600 gets it to 139 FPS average leading the

10600 case stock result by 1 FPS so we're with an error and it also leads the 4000 megahertz CL 1510 400 result by 3% which is not with an error the 10 600 k max OC still leads everyone by a lot at 159 FPS average but the real point is

That the 10 400 can be out tuned by every other part that's nearby and price particularly the similarly priced 3600 the cheaper 3300 X lightweight tuned even gets it close to the F result of the 10 400 and the 10 600 K obviously

Has plenty of room above it that's the numbers then so to answer the question of if you wanted true apples to apples you did it the wrong way Steve knows he should have dropped 30 200 220 666 and so on I mean I knew the answer already

But we've invested three days improving it so there you go there's the numbers the 10 400 still loses surprise and the 3600 if you invest the equal time tuning it is able to actually do better than we even suspected previously so that was

Good information to take away from this couple of notes first of all please don't harass other reviewers when we post things that may disagree with their opinions multiple people can have multiple opinions it's fine it's not

Cool to see our common sirs going and harassing other reviewers for their work because everyone puts a lot of work into it and we may come up with different numbers but there's different testing there's different opinions and there's

Different beliefs as to what's okay for testing so don't harass people that's that's number one I want to point that out right now secondly to that one of the big beliefs we have is that you should test following Intel official

Guidance which means not using the motherboard default out of the box untouched if that motherboard cheats if it changes the settings if it changes beat clock silently if it maxes out PL 1 PL 2 and tau if it disregards Intel

Official guidance and makes the CPU better than how it is marketed and advertised it's basically pre overclocking it and once you're basically pre overclocking a CPU you're in territory where now it's a

Slippery slope of for whom do you apply these changes do we also disable the limits on AMD boards because just because I am the enforces their limits better it kind of makes it unfair if Intel's motherboard partners are running

Blasting PL on PL 2 and tau out of the box which is way outside of the official speck in the spreadsheets that Intel sends out a lot of the time or spreadsheets the spec tables that you see online if you allow that then it's

Just you gotta allow the other stuff to you it make sense I look bad all sorts of power consumption so they they win and they lose just depends on what chart you're looking at we've made that point before though

But that's our believe and because of that it means that our numbers will always be conservatively low at least for now based on the way the specs work now and that's a good thing because if you pre overclock it out of the box

There's a good chance you'll have instability for some of the users and we don't think that is a good user experience and it's really best that Andy and Intel both have a set of rules that we enforce for both of them and so

That's where we draw the line it has to follow the official power limits that are recommended by the company that makes the CPU the motherboard makers don't have a say in it in our opinion and our reviews because now you're not

Testing the CPUs you're testing the motherboards and that's different so that may be a reason you see different numbers sometimes but outside of that obviously memory is a factor and we've now accounted for that and the 10400 is

Bad value and you shouldn't buy it now it's not an objectively bad CPU in that it performs reasonably it's not like it's garbage here but it's not good value so opinion remains the same at the same price you should

A 3,600 or 3300 extra game and if you want to save some money and put the rest of that into a GPU which will often get you more performance anyway or you can go the opposite direction spend more money you get a 10 600 K it's a

Phenomenal CPU for the price point Intel's done well to recover we really enjoy it for overclock in one of the best CPUs we've worked with recently for an enthusiast so 10 600 K is what we'd recommend if you can stretch the budget

Or if you're buying z4 90 anyway the 33:36 or what we recommend below that Intel absolutely has to unlock its B&H boards to start competing better in enthusiast and really we'd like to see it move away from the non case keys as

Well problem is Intel sells so many damn CPUs to OEMs that we don't matter none of us none of us in the enthusiast audience matter to Intel I mean to an extent we do but it's a subdivision of Intel and ultimately the business units

That are handling Dell HP Lenovo selling trays upon trays millions of CPUs they're the ones who who make the decisions that affect this and so it's unlikely this will change but we do want to see a change if possible I GP is a

Justification with a 10400 that we didn't point out in the first video that was a good point that some of our counters made one of our colleges said to be a developer and said they could use an AI GP and the cpu and get the

Perform so that's a good justification for it otherwise outside of sort of mainstream desktop you use we don't really like it at least outside of a Z board and then you should buy something else as for the

Memory though it's not cheap to get the performance we got in some of these charts so keep that in mind – that's it for this one thanks for watching to support us directly go to store documents nexus dotnet or patreon.com

Slash gamers nexus and check back for other videos subscribe for more we'll see you all next time

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