Fusion | BlockchainBrad | Financial innovation on the Blockchain | Morpheus Labs Partnership

by birtanpublished on September 3, 2020

hello it's Brad Laurie or blockchain Brad and today we're getting serious with all things fusion that's right they're injecting something quite unique into the blockchain space when it comes to define and finance protocols and we

Have this SI Pio here the chief product officer so his name is John blue thank you very much for your time mate yeah nice to meet you Brad hello everybody I know the CP o is always a struggle some people think it's c-3po right and it's

Certainly your role is important and we're going to find out what exactly you do in a moment but before we start John I wanted to firstly thank you for this opportunity to do a free interview with you and the objective is to be

Transparent and to try and provide more information as with education as the focus and premise now you are all about nonprofit foundation and also a very fundamental protocol itself established for decentralized global finance can you

Tell us a bit more about those terms and what you stand for at fusion yeah so fusion is a profit nonprofit side and it's a layer 1 protocol as you mentioned now you mentioned that also it is focused on defy and for our view on defy

Is really down to two things right number one with defy we believe that interoperability of assets is quite important and by interoperability it's a fancy determines just saying assets need to talk to each other in order to have

Value exchange and the other thing we think is very important is easy time value digitization so everybody knows about assets digitization but do they know about time value as much and what is time value is the value of your asset

Over the length of time and we know it today as far as renting a house loaning an auto all those are just taking different slices of time from that asset we believe it's fundamental to digitization that's the things that

Fusions focused on and it's interesting because there's certain fundamental theory that aligns with that as you wouldn't know as you would know and temporality seems to be a fundamental asset when it comes to trying

Inculcating trusts into in assets especially in this new environment of trust 'less technologies but moving back to you I wanted to ask you about the nature of your protocol as well in terms of being open source being

Inaccessible technology now how for the people are you given that your nonprofit well that's an interesting question the fact that we're nonprofit means I suppose we're always for the people right you know if mean and it's launched

And then you can go to our github and you can see all the time-lock libraries out there in fact it's quite fun from the community side you know they're they're all open source and they're they're gone home building with us but

They always say why are we giving away such technology for free right you know aren't we scared that other people are going to take our technology of course that's always a risk right so that's why you have these type of i thi–like the

Stanford type of licenses but we do encourage innovation in the industry because we think you know only by working on this thing together can we actually move this industry forward rather it's an interesting point and as

You would appreciate right now defy is the buzzword in crypto and blockchain environments what's your viewpoint on defy as a slogan and as a point of values for both now in the future yeah I think defy has a very sexy appeal to it

You know everybody likes that idea man I'd love to exchange with someone else I'd love to be in charge of my own finance you know that's a very powerful statement to have but not every aspect of Finance is actually ready for and not

Everyone really wants that responsibility you know when I say to you okay you can exchange with someone else but you're also fully responsible for your asset if you happen to lose this piece of paper where you wrote your

Password on guess what you just lost all your assets I think people take a step back and they go man that's that's kind of scary I'm not sure if I'm ready for that so there's definitely areas where

Decentralized finance makes a lot of sense we cut out a lot of the middlemen in there we're taking too many fees for example in licensing for creative content and media songs for example like 70% to 80% of the revenue that's

Generated just gets sucked away from middlemen we don't need that much inefficiency but in other areas where if I'm actually lending money out to you I like to trust Brad that you're not in a default ami and and you know walk away

With all my money so there's a balance that must be had I think by world and in that context I want to ask you given that you have been the space and certainly know it well what are your thoughts on the readiness of defy right

Now especially considering that we're still at the phase of experimentation of layer once you know and even layer 0 into some extent to make sure that we have the bedrock we have that foundation for the mass adoption that technically

Should be coming should this play out as we envisage it yeah so there that's a packed question because there's a lot of readiness layers that we can look at is it ready from the innovation technology side is it ready from a ecosystem trust

Side is already from a regulation inside and now I'll take a stab at trying to answer all three of those right ok on the technology side I do think we were just put very early on in the dodging cycles so everybody's innovating you

Know we have a lot of tools as far as being with exchange being able to do to track value that's well proven by this point you know the bitcoins been around long enough and we have all these coins out there that has shown that these you

Can actually exchange values right so seamlessly within a blockchain and in certain cases across blockchain so that's good news you have also these other experimental technology is like zero knowledge type of identities you

Know selective privacy and that's a harder sell because I don't think we're quite ready for that type of innovation right I think down the line we definitely need something I only want to expose certain information the truly

Defy world I only want to expose that I'm over 18 but I don't want to expose my exact age that's that's great that's like a second order derivative of advancement that we're not quite ready for yet yeah so that's what I think from

A technology standpoint we're just kind of like getting down let's make sure we can get our value exchange down we can make sure our transactions are looking good you know make sure our processing speed is all good

Let's get that all set so that from the ecosystem perspective we're starting to integrate the various pieces that are needed for value exchange you know something like a fusion protocol where I say I'm digitizing assets versus to

Someone else who's also digitizing assets what's the difference well with fusion you can you know digitized with time value and kind of innovate a little more with that asset that you've actually digitized you know

You don't just have a token that you can buy and sell you can control how long you want to buy and sell that totem for so we're going to integrate everybody's different views into one ecosystem and brazo through people like Morpheus

Through our own partnerships lining up all the different players that are involved in a end to end financial flow right so from the people who are originating assets to the technology enablers to the kind of interface to the

Consumers such as an acid issuance platform mmm that's a really interesting point so it's almost like you're creating internet of value when it comes to alignment of parties that are also trying to build for you know real

Adoption and real use case real business and we'll certainly talk about some of those partnerships and later in the interview but I wanted to also ask you a bit about you in terms of your experience what you've done in the past

Because it as as you are the chief product officer clearly there's certain skill sets you need to really leave this out so what makes it what makes you you know suited for this job and and how's everything going know based on your

Skill sets so nice if you look at my skill set it's it seems like it's all over the place but 19 years I've worked in Wall Street now half of that time it actually worked trading assets like in bonds and

Derivatives right in the very center of inefficiencies that we're trying to solve today at you know trading bonds and over the phone on chat you know actually writing down my trades on a notebook all the people are still

Laughing at me but that's that's kind of my background whatever I did it trade I wrote it down in a notebook Trina you know my trade assistant would then entered into us into their spreadsheet so all the school trade off old-school

Trader right and and actually across all different assets as well so bonds I traded derivatives futures options the whole whole gamut now the other nine years I've been building product solutions trying to solve all the

Efficiencies that I saw right and this expands a analytics it's band also operations and they also had like entitlement so it's building out platforms that entitled content I mean that's what I've been doing it for the

Remaining nine years of my life and it makes me very well-suited for something like a blockchain for two reasons number one because the financial background have bearing on the Wall Street acumen

And number two my experience in building out platforms in a kind of hard or haha you know kind of not well-defined area like a regulations aren't quite well-defined yet the players aren't quite well-defined yet that's a lot of

Work to try to build a product out and I'm not quite a bit of experience doing that well it's good to know and also given that you have that finance acumen you don't and that experience that's gonna be fundamental because you're a

Finance centric protocol but I also wanted to just touch on trading and speculation for a moment because obviously you've seen the dark side of crypto as well it certainly has existed and it's certainly not going away

Anytime soon in terms of the right speculation you know that gamble approach to you know shorting everything and trying to just make you know stack sacks and essentially stack feared as well what are your thoughts on that kind

Of approach when today when essentially many of us are trying to promote the long term vision and value of this industry yeah and that kind of touches on a third point that I was mentioning before like

The regulation aspect right nobody likes it have Big Brother there but they do exist in some places to protect everyone to get rid of the know the Wild West aspect of things so there are a lot of skinny situations that are happening

Even legit companies yeah that's unfortunate just in the way it is and the good news is the the regulators that government agencies are starting to come down and go after these type of scanners I with fusion of course

You know we've been we've been a very close to two cyber criminals ourselves yes I'm going to talk about that that's the nature of the industry right you're dealing with tech-savvy people and we're also did of not always the best nature

Right and of course they're gonna be out there trying to when there's this much wealth being generated system of course you're gonna be out there trying to get it so we're the good news I see is we're kind of moving past that Wild West stage

Of making a safer area for the mass adoption to happen all right so hence defy you know it is the next sort of expectation and valuable position I you bullish on the the wider frame of define especially

Given at your opponent's vice protocol absolutely I am and I definitely has its place you know if it's a whether it's something like I have to pay 7% for example just to do my FX my foreign exchange when I went from us to to Spain

For example I don't need that type of I want you to pay away that many fees just do it FX transaction there's something that much cheap really done just from a stable points if I can find my counterparty you guys did lending on on

If it's in a protected and kyc AML you know we have to go to those regulations so we don't have this type of these kind of scammy situations like in this sense where I can lend money out and let's say earn a 6% interest as opposed to lend my

Money on hey six percent away to a bank who then you know eats all that money just because they lined up the counterparty I think there's definitely a very bullish future it's really interesting you say that especially

Since you know from the outset we heard that libertarian and we still hear those libertarian ideals being promoted and I guess well as well explained by certain parties you know those that are the real proponents of this the cyberpunk

Movement given that you are so pro K where caml you know what do you say to those who are pro privacy and want to circumvent those kinds of measures I think just like regulation needs to exist in the right place you don't want

To over regulate where you don't need to over regulate and you want to regulate where there's not enough regulation I know that feels kind of like one of those for answers but it's the reality of things right you know in the case

Where you know fat far they came out in sin and as you see they all came out of the joint statement just recently but just firming out where they think hey I see an AML is necessary and I think that does bring a level of level of this you

Know professionalism or maturity to the blockchain industry right it's no longer be associated with the dark transactions that's always gonna happen it happens right now with fiat currencies – I glad there's there's the mob you can see

Collecting you know clean money prints on Wall Street happens we fear happens ever it happens everywhere but the regulations do help to kind of limit the damage out right so we do need some type

Of protection for a consumer now where there is a case you know as as the digital world builds out sure there's there's a utopia out there that I can see where it's like the world is no longer defined by human by the physical

Boundaries a country of you know US and Australia or something that these are digital boundaries that are going to be built out and that's an exciting utopia that we can all dream about where were me I don't know if we're gonna get there

My life tire and but it we're definitely building to us to make that happen got and it's interesting to see different perspectives you know come forth and we certainly see a lot of discussion right now about different

Camps and different sort of ideologies you know when it comes to crypto especially it comes to Bitcoin but moving on to you for a moment with regard to depths and development I wanted to discuss some of the

Initiatives that you've created with your team to make sure that you are pro dev and yours really supporting them as you you know continue to build this ecosystem and it's protocol yep yeah so we launched our main net back in June

And since then we're now going into the high year of adoption right and before we go into adoption you know you pretty much need the firepower we've got our death with infusion you know they've been working on a protocol team for some

Time but now we're turning on the palms and reaching out to our community to bring developers into our chain and as you mentioned we've got different campaigns that we've launched I think we've just announced it two or three

Days ago where we're offering time value Awards with infusion tokens to find proper developers with good talents maybe you're going to be back an engineer maybe you're a product manager maybe you're front-end engineer and

We're lining up the roster right because we have a lot of exciting products to build out there and you're going to see more incentives be announced the next two to three months especially as our D CRM technology which is our

Decentralized interoperability solution starts going into beta by the end of this year all right okay so in that sense you're trying to incentivize real work you know those that essentially can do things to bolster the real value of

Your eco not just a protocol that now expand two applications with the crypto campaigns one of the things I read was you have a two million FSN that's your token sort of initiative can you tell us

A bit more about that yep yeah I mean it they all fall into this time valued type of initiative that we said right so two million FSM you know if you let's say our proper developer you've got the proper CV we very valid eight that you

You know you've got your github and everything then of course you will earn a certain type of reward for actually registering as a fusion developer then that's just step one then this next step is now that we've actually lined up the

Full roster we're going to start awarding out those particular incentives into let's say building out to a decks that's what we really have attached to the wanna take it to the next level you know actually building on nice UI decks

That goes with us so who do we need and then we'll open it up maybe it's a team that we actually put together with the community you know I'm very excited just just two days ago it's quite funny because we're seeing this all we're

Seeing the Camellia like come alive right we've added like sixty developers just in a matter of like two or three days and I was talking to one of the community developers and you is all ready to go on humanitarian type of you

Know fundraising and is it's just great seeing so many so many capable developers joining our community well that's good to hear because obviously you know we want those parties in any you know viable startup that long-term

Focused because that short term game it really doesn't do a lot for the team's trying to establish something for the future whether they be for profit or nonprofit in your case now in terms of other strategies with business building

And those business campaigns what are you doing on that front to really you know garner more support in that mainstream sector yeah it's a been rough so you've seen a lot of the partnerships that we've announced and then from me

Until until like August I was hidden to hidden the floor really hard talking to all the different partnerships both through the traditional Wall Street type loves or connections that I've had with the big banks as well as a lot of the

Innovative companies that I've met through the various conferences I'd been to you now what I have noticed is the big banks of because they're regularly heavily regulated they have to be very very

Careful with who they engage with and they have to they're also very selective of course and they move very slowly right so that's good news we continue discussions over them we continue to educate them education as I'm sure

You're aware and more if yourselves of course it's a big part of adapting to new technologies absolutely so essentially they're over the discussion not necessarily open for business today by as you mentioned before interesting

Points on time in terms of a value prop but it's also essential criterion for them for these parties to just make that switch yeah and part of its a regulation basis well I was talking to one of the tier 1 banks can't give out the name of

Course but they make an analogy that we're building unfortunately I will not they are very interested in our technology like we spent about two or three sessions but they also asked this question at the end they said do you

Have a token well yes we're we're you know we're a foundation of course we have our own token and they said unfortunately until we get clarity more clarity from this as you're on exactly what's happening on utility tokens for

Security and hope we just can't work with any project that has a token John and I have to stop you and say thank you for saying that I think to a lot of people party members in a lot of startups none are really that clear and

It's great to hear that clarity for us you know asked his listeners trying to understand each of these doughnuts because the reality is that the token does really put off a lot of these these regulators and lot of these entities who

Do want to engage blockchain and the terminological challenge is real it doesn't necessarily mean that the token is invalid it just means that there's a terminological anomaly right now we're still trying to work out what each of

These mean from the top you know Ilan's of business and government so we can start to move forward yeah I mean even from a balance sheet standpoint how do you classify a token where does it fit isn't an equity huh you know that

Those are very real questions that businesses don't know how to handle right now and it's just not worth the headache right and what are your thoughts on this scenario that plays out where we've seen

Things like icos you know in that era and then we saw the IE assembly move forward in this sense of the buzzword right from the outset was utility token but initially often they function as pre utility as I like to say

Or some have deemed them closing securities which is fair but they tend to morph experience a perfect example into a supported or sec supported commodity so again there's evidence of flexibility from parties like the sec to

Change their determination when it comes to the terminology and what they actually are as assets so are you also you know looking forward to seeing these money mortars be cleared up so that we can have a better understanding of what

All these assets are actually classified as absolutely I think the whole industry is looking forward to these kind of the clarity coming from the regulators and hey I was in in one of those smaller meetups probably like two months ago and

The topic of whether you want to work with the regulator if you want to run away from him came up and I was surprised to me I was like look it's pretty clear no one wants to talk to regulators but they're reaching out for

Help right and of course if you did something that's not good they're gonna come after you they might want to slap you on the hand because you know their goal is not to destroy you but they do have to make sure you don't do it again

You know better that you actually work with them they explain to them your standpoint you know and then have this dialogue and as opposed to you know what we're just going to circumvent the regulations completely and because they

Don't know what they're doing right and it's interesting you you talked about slap on the wrist because that's really what has been happening it hasn't been an iron fist or an iron hammer that's been wielded down it's

Just bringing a message you know to those parties that perhaps you know didn't work forth right from the outset with the disclosure then what they actually functioned as and now we see the repercussions with fines come out

But they've been very light so it's clear that the directions moving forward are a you know trying to group these assets into clear camp so that once again we can have you know as consumers more globally conferred

This ecosystem is real and it's here for the long-term and until then it's a little bit of a sort of a nebulous you know cloudy space it is and we we always take I'm always happy when I see the headlines like Central Bank's continue

To explore with digital currencies I think it's up to like 15 of them now so you know they're exploiting these central bank digital currencies and it's gonna take time right it's gonna take maybe it's a year away or anything like

That but the fact is they're actually starting to look at it it's no longer like this thing's not here this whole digital currency is a joke when this many central banks are actually talking about it and experimenting building

Prototypes with it that's a very positive sign for the future of both digital currency as well as d-5 I totally agree and then on top of that when you see the g7 sort of initiatives that really sends a strong message when

We see reactions to Libra for example another very you know important message for you know the crypto world and they're taking these things very seriously so with regard to you I wanted to talk to you a bit more about your

Your mainstream business in terms of some of those names of all of those partnerships you know really building on the traction that you've built from the outset and showcasing what you really do in terms of real use yeah I think the

Best partnerships that I I have of course I'm biased because I come from a Bond background so the ones that I'm most excited all these are my Bond type of partnerships so axp and yacht capital X few announced early this year around

February and youngbae announced just about about a month ago both of them are actually issuing debt in assets that the traditional consumer hasn't had access to and actually returned quite well returns of like 8 percent plus know when

You think about quickly like on it's nothing right you know that's like at least like 20 or 30 percent returns and when you think about bonds in a percent return in a world where in Europe for example you're dealing with negative

Interest rates so that's like a very good type of return and so both these both these partners are innovating the space they're reaching out to consumers who need to borrow money we've been shut down because the big banks don't want to

Service this particular niche right they're just this isn't a big enough business for the banks to deal with it's not worth the talent sheet risk so they're solving it from the people who need to borrow money

And they're lining up digital investors on the other side people who want to put money to work see if I go to Europe nice and I got 8% to 10% interest from you with very low default rates of under 2% so under 2% of the entire under 2% of

The entire basket of securities not that all 2% 2% companies gonna default it's in a basket that we're bringing over right that's a really attractive offering that most consumers just don't even aren't even aware of mmm

And what could this mean also John sorry interrupt but I wanted to ask you on that front what could it mean for Millennials who typically struggle to get support in these areas whether that be from lending whether that be from

Bonds whether that be from any sort of financial assets many of them need very significant you know assets in hand or evidence of income for example so what could this mean in terms of change it's it's not

Just for Millennials I like to put them into the classification of the under banked and unbanked right so yeah it's it's it's broader than that you know some of these guys it's such because they don't have a credit history you

Know whether you're a millennial that or small business how are you supposed to put in like three four years of you know work paychecks or you know merchant returns you just don't have that much information right the good news is with

Other ingredients maybe it is like this kind of AI where you like with Alibaba where they look at all non alternative data sources to actually decide whether they want to give you a loan as opposed to the traditional way

Of showing up with four years of credit history you know blockchain with digital securities Nai where you can kind of piece it all together we're opening up new return avenues for people that we were just talking about the underbanked

Hmm that's certainly exciting to see because that's the whole point of you know what many people started with is trying to create a more equitable system you know enable people to have more autonomy and have more of a voice and

Certainly to have more of an input as well and enable them to have full control of their assets as well in their finances now in terms of blockchain business we've talked about that defy you know earlier on the

Interoperability in the beginning when we saw crypto unfold a lot over a lot of those words like interoperability of we're excessively used I think we can all clearly say that so do you feel that there's more ferocity in the term now

Those are all meaning and meat in it given that the inter connective you know value is definitely there to expand upon the silos the protocols can be yeah I think like interoperability everybody is one of those problems where people like

To kick the can down the road you know they like met Interop bill is important of course we should be talking to our other blockchain systems the reality of the industry right now if I'm gonna be frank is everybody's feeling the

Pressure to kind of prove the use case in their own chains you know they raise a bunch of money to feeling pressure I got to validate my use cases so they're doing a great job with that they're creating it within their own little

Island right so we've got these great islands of value that are being created out there but as you know this internet value that we're always looking for is this connected world so we got to build the bridges that connect those Islands

Through and I'm happy that you know there are a few projects us included but you know of course cosmos gets mentioned polka dot right they're all taking interoperability as a proactive step you know I like to coin the term that the

Researcher consensus research use which is proactive interoperability we're thinking of addressing it first and as opposed to doing it as an afterthought right so result on the one we're not like a commercial what here's your

Commercial business there's not like a wallet that's generating revenue we just let a lot of blockchain companies are focused on for example we're actually gonna be we're solving the problem the industry that you guys gonna pay the

Pain for if we don't address yeah mmm and it's interesting because you know you mentioned some of those names with their lives if you never I trying to do that in Europe we and obviously for their global startup we see quant doing

That with their over ledger system trying to essentially interconnect businesses via their own software there's one ledger is another example I mean I'm not naming these names to FOMO but there is a push now for trying to

Create these interoperable as we call it now what I really wanted to talk about was one that I'm an ambassador for so it's important that I do disclose that that is of payroll that is Morpheus Lance or

Morpheus as many people know that now they are doing they're being passed there blockchain platform as-a-service they're really trying to now – seriously build out the potentials of this in this nice and time so my understanding is

That you are working with them that you really really understand their technology can you tell talkest talk to us a bit more about the value of enterprise and the value of this you know cross protocol and cross platform

Partnership yeah so when I met Morpheus lab the CEO of Morpheus lab I think he mentioned two things that got me quite excited number one he was building out as you said an enterprise kind of platform where where

Developers come in and they can just pick and choose the right tool sets that they need right so that it's almost an ecosystem they're lowering the barrier of entry for developers into a very well well flexed kind of ecosystem so that

Was number one thing that got me very excited number two not only is it the technology tool sets that they're working with they're working with the private and government entities as well yeah that's

Key the fact that you've got the business quotes the business side players that you're educating with and bringing to this kind of library and tool sets use is is gonna be what takes the blockchain forward yeah it's really

Interesting you write you say that because I read on Twitter yesterday or day before some suggestions that there's some big things coming for Morpheus labs with regard to government announcements or just collaborations in terms of probe

Lot chain you know collaboration and in some in that sense you know you're also and certainly knowing the space in Singapore do you feel that where you're situated is also fundamental given that Singapore is very progressive for

Example certain other regions of the globe are as well just geography matter geography definitely matters and you'll see that it is it's almost like this the emerging countries are kind of pushing ahead right and they're doing that for

Two reasons number one the smaller emerging countries they almost have a smaller ecosystem you have a controlled environment that you can experiment on in the US you get the it's a huge 50-plus state system how you

Gonna coordinator cross all the different state level laws you know federal level laws and all the populations that's a lot of moving pieces you have to kind of coordinate so it's a smaller moving stage where you

Have a controlled environment and it is also big emerging countries whose they're not tied down by legacy infrastructure and can I say regulations right there they're kind of moving from a state of you know they're some of them

Haven't even joined the financial economy really like let's say some regions in some regions in a sub-saharan area right they're just going to leapfrog all the legacy banking that we're dealing with right now here in the

States and go not just a credit they're gonna go straight into crypto currencies right so that's a very exciting time that they can move forward so geography matters in the sense of these are the emerging countries right okay and

Obviously it's interesting too because not a lot of people discuss just how advanced some of these developing regions are in with the use of mobile phones for example when it comes to find it in fact there many many of these

Regions are more progressive in some of the you know developed nations in terms of experimenting with the interesting assets now even pre blockchain so there's certainly well positioned and well poised to move into this arena and

Again it's more palatable perhaps in those regions where it's fundamental to be able to hedge against you know currency crisis for example where there's you know an expectation that tomorrow I you know your currency may be

Just so overhyped or sorry I over inflated that and hyper-inflated that it just you know loses its value so it's really interesting points that you're making there now to move back to Morpheus labs for a moment I wanted to

Talk to you a bit more about you know how this is gonna play out you know why a be past you know melding with the finance protocol like yours and what's the benefit and how do you really collaborate to consolidate both your

Values as you move forward with your own agenda Morpheus lab it's an amplifier using this amplifier what I've been trying to what Fusion has been trying to do right then as an example I go out I talk to various student partners say

Join our ecosystem I've got two or three different issuance platforms joining up I've got two or three different asset originators I've got three or four different identity providers right they're all coming over and Bill

On this full-stack now just imagine that being done ten times over because that's really what Morpheus lab is doing right they're reaching out to each individual project collaborative real projects like fusion like each you know but all you

Know some of the other names that you have there and they're pulling it all together into one platform now all right so that's why I view them as a huge amplifier if out but I what I've been trying to do sure that's how you have

Boots on the ground well I can just add there's one thing the fact they have boots on the ground in Singapore and Malaysia in some of these developing countries I were just talking about for blocking friendly makes it even that

Much more powerful right and given that you they are that full stack designed let's be real about that they've developed the software to provide the tool suite how does that work with you given that you're a protocol itself how

Are you going to integrate and how are you going to how are they going to essentially support you you know that's what I want to try and find it's how are you going to optimize your outcomes by this partnership right not just of

Course the running the nose and what not that's that's a given that's just like you know okay take the way the work of having to set up nodes from the developers side build sample applications with the tools that we have

You know they like put it into the bite size cookie so you want to issue an asset here's here's a library that you want to do you want to actually go in time slices asset here it is again right not only will you have this tour these

Sample tools that Morpheus will be building with Fusion this is a very exciting thing right it's not fusion just going on and build in like Morpheus its developers will be building using fusions tools the ability to kind of get

These sample apps out there mm-hmm but as Morpheus as type of developers get more familiar with what Fusion is doing they're also familiar with what are the other projects that are on Morpheus are doing and that's where the kind of the

Organic melding of technologies actually happen because it's just like for me I'm fluent in three languages Sally just three but I can in turn I can easily switch between those three language because I know them well right not just

Imagine is the same with the technology okay you know what for the interoperability side here's a great solution that fusions got so let me let me put that in here but maybe for something else where I've got I got

Do some kind of shade or Oracle or something like that let me bring over something from chain analysis side you know maybe there's some kind of high transaction that needs to be run through well let's let's bring over something

From Neos I mean there's just some really exciting because they're just treating these as like different languages they can access gotcha again makes little sense sure and and what about with regard to the proof of

Applications being built I mean how robust is it now or how is it building in terms of that proof of development can you can you rephrase that question well just a sense of well just in terms of the stages you're at now so perhaps I

Wasn't clear just you know given that you're a protocol but also you want to make sure that you're building a more replete because system for yourselves infusion you know where's the evidence empirically about the stages of your

Development they're moving beyond just a protocol and more into the the DDI application side yeah so our quantum swap has actually been live the quantum stop is just a native version a really fast version of the atomic swap right

You can swap it we've got various different ers e20 aetherium tokens that already on the fusion network but that's been live and working without issues you know for since the launch of main net I mean there have been advancements to it

Such as like trying to do swaps on a private level and certainly the communities found bugs and we fix those so that's the benefit of you know taking our time and running all these transactions we have over 600 now it's

Over 700,000 different transactions now than have been swapped through so it's a robust network that we have in the application layer which were we can working on the wallet side I mean that's an application so they're always they're

Always gonna be bugs to work through on the application but none of it has been down at the protocol level which is a very exciting thing right you know the application might be AI just try to slice up a time lock for you and for

Some reason it's not showing up in the right place in my wallet right so we look back and say oh it's because you know maybe the UI needed to be adjusted slightly we need to change button slightly but we didn't have to go in and

Actually come redo two protocols I'm terrible with it well that's good tonight and thank you for explaining that because obviously we want to see that development happen now proof mistake

It's controversial to some experts in industry whether it come from the whether they come from the cryptography stand you know camp or whether they come from blockchain there's some conjecture right now quite

Serious ones about the legitimacy of the viability of proof of stake in comparison a perfect work for example what are your thoughts on this given you are pro pro proof stake you built around this idea especially that unique desire

The ticketing the ticket printer stake how's everything going with that are you glad we made that choice and and is it providing the necessary security for your ecosystem yeah I'll answer the questions in Reverse all right so I am

Very glad with our proof of mistake the ticket of proof of stake that takes advantage to the time value is working great there's not been any issue issuance where it's like somebody's knows lost all their tickets

Inappropriately right there's usually they've been punished for example in case their nose went down and you know there's always discussion on whether the punishment is too severe or not you know we're obviously pretty flexible on that

Front but reason why I like put the ticket of proof of stake that fusion has is because we don't actually risk the entire token when you actually stake with us you remember the time value that I talked about earlier what we do is we

Only slice the time that we need for you to stake and you still keep the full token so let's say the worst situation happens you're kind of you join a staking pool and you're you're kind of staking with them for a few let's say a

Three months and there are legitimate staking pool they do some kind of crazy exit scam in case of other tokens guess what man you're out a lot because they just took your tokens ran away with the fusion ticket Rufus take all they've

Done is they taken that exposure for the three months time but though you as an owner you still have the full token so in three month time so you got the full something back in your hand all right so that's why I'm quite happy with the

Ticket of Rufus system so it's almost simultaneous urine system yeah it's I like to think of it as as kind of you know if I'm using it for X time and then I should risk X time I shouldn't you risk anything

Greater than that Ronnie I paid I risk for what I get paid for now as far as the different consensus protocols every time I wake up there's like a new proof there's a new proof of something out there that I

Haven't heard of before and I can't you know I'm not a advanced enough to predict which consensus is going to win out which is why I think a collaborative approach is quite important here and why we're always thinking of different ways

Of layering out our technology as well so that we can work with other type of consensus mechanisms like for example even other type of distributed Ledger's for that matter you've seen comments with the likes of phantom right and

There are a day right you know just a completely different type of approach than just a traditional blockchain for example I mean you just want to continue to layer in and say here's the fusion technology how can we best work with all

The variants other consensus other blocking protocols are out there and it's really interesting you say that because you know essentially most block chains are built on the fundamental sort of premise of the deck anyway but then

You look at the private versions to the public you look at being a principal Authority proof of work proof of stake and there's new ones coming out proof of history I was just talking to geek yesterday actually about there so the

Point I think you make that's important is you have that flexibility in mind of the different value propositions that various consensus mechanisms can bring and certainly there's also pros and cons you know to each of them potentially but

Really we just don't know I think it's fair to say which is what's going to play out in the future but as I saw someone who's Pro interoperability surely that puts you in a good position and in good stead for the future as you

Build out you know in this defy arena right okay the whole yeah okay now I'm a net it updates you already alluded to some of them that was the next point I want to talk about how challenging has it been to now have this native token

Sort of evolved uh you know in the crypto stage I think the transition to meet from from like eh each I mean it was was completely smooth I mean this it went live there were lots of comments from the community I said this is a

Smoothest transition from test net to me net that they've ever been part of and then you know it's like people just go to it Madras they spot the ERC twenty and indeed they now hold main net tokens now of course there's a you know

Confusion out there like anything well we've got the ERC 20 tokens you've got the main net tokens and we're definitely looking to sunset all the ERC 20 tokens are out there it's just a matter of kind of getting on in onto this new main at

Protocol okay I mean that tokens are now I wanted to ask in that context because we hear about this sort of rumor in the crypto domain that it's more challenging once you have your native tokens true have the exchanges you know work with

You because of the additional requisites you know that many exchanges then face have you found that from your experience that there's less lesser of an interest once you move into a native scenario you know luckily not yet but definitely each

Exchange has their own roadmap and priority to switch from ERC 22 the maintenance alright that's that's what you're beholden to and that's what we're seeing history right now but so far no exchange

Has gone out and said okay you know what you got a mean and token we don't want to talk to you I mean that's maybe one of the reasons as well that we've got such a you look at it on coin market cap we're pretty much listening on the major

Exchanges anyway already because we're a pretty strong project right so we taken care of making sure that people can access the fusion tokens when they need to and then we switch over to arm unit Ghana and how

Important has a been to have that liquidity base as well as you mentioned you have some of the big names already you know it with regard to exchange support what does it mean to be out there in an ecosystem well we're looking

At a potential sort of bearish market we're not really sure where things are going but you now have the support already of these exchanges and it's relatively liquid yeah for me I look at the

Liquidity more from when I think about the enterprise type of relationships right so if you're an enterprise firm and then you look at something let's say you can solve the answer of how can I get exposure to tokens I know how to

Deal with it opens then you're left with all right am i able to get the necessary tokens and also get out of the tokens in a suitable amount of time if an enterprise organization comes and they say this thing's trading at five

Thousand you know it's five thousand tokens a day of course they're gonna have to shy away because they're gonna move the entire market but when they see healthy volumes maybe it's 2 million maybe it's 3 million I don't know what

The proper number is gonna be but that's the comfort level I think we need to give enterprise to engage with with the lights of the fusion right anytime that makes a lot of sense now in terms of you know the API data sets you know the

Libraries you build your building that's ongoing no doubt there's transparency there are you comfortable with the pace of you know the development in that intensive code in terms of repose in terms of contributions from the

Community we'd always like it to be faster right as a product person I like the the kind of store is like the business always throw the product person you're not moving fast enough and the product

Person always tells the developer you're not moving fast enough like that's that's the reality of the cycle where we are but that also takes back to why we're kind of partnering with the Morpheus and also pushing ahead with our

Development campaign because we know that if we just keep relying on the developers that are within Fusion and they're good developers but there's only so many of them versus the network of developers in the ecosystem that we have

Now we've got hundreds and hundreds of people that can help a fusion innovate hmm right so in the context of if the one of the challenge of the barriers to entry is the regulator are you doing anything in your role or anyone in the

Team to try and facilitate or smooth the probe over the process for those parties who perhaps just in education but our understanding that a communication with people like you so that once again we can expedite the process of regulation

I I'm not actually talking to any of the regulators now I leave that to the big guys with their agencies and alliances who are actually meeting with with them right so they're there I'm laying out the road for us in a time being for

Canada well it's good to know because we're not speaking with Gilbert Verde and from quant he's actually directly involved in that kind of you know sort of privileged community of decision makers you know he's one of the reps for

Blockchain actually so it's just interesting to see how there are players in the blockchain so the startup game also trying to interact at that level to try and facilitate and expedite the process and educate as well it's so

Important now with regard to some of the claims so I've just made it written down one that I've read from your website and literature it was an interesting quote about saying that you are a distributed distributed control rights management

System and that it you are cutting edge right now do you still stand by that idea that you need a cutting edge technology yeah for the distribute controlled rights I I still stand by that idea so um let me explain a little

Bit the interoperability of course there are very good solutions out there between cosmos have polka dot but you know they've got between validators and passing data back and forth they I think it's it's a good approach right but with

The fusion what it's actually doing is its operating on intra building a digital asset level and was even more important it's not like some atomic swap which is also very good in solution the the

Constant behind these your arm is you're giving the custody of this asset to a blockchain right the custody of the asset to a block you're not giving it to an entity you're giving it to the nodes that are on the blockchain I'm sorry

Called a decentralized custody solution and because of that right you don't have to impose any different type of coding standards on the external block chains you don't have to trust your assets to someone who might disappear right we

Create interoperability with this concept of decentralized custody and no compatibility standards that's why I think it's cutting edge okay now that's essentially distributed custody as well when we went to when it comes to the

So are there any inherent risks given that there are certain pros to having a relatively centralized custodial system for a decentralized technological innovation that we're seeing in a movement do you know what I mean is

There any risks inherent in having this approach that is exactly why we're taking our time right with Adi CRM I mean we've got these gr MDOT Network witches our our D charm 4.0 alpha it's really live for you to use right now but

Why haven't we merged everything else with the look at the main net primarily it is around figuring out what is the right balance between resilience of the of the of the keys itself you don't obviously want a decentralized type of

Fish our Tiki world war two knows disappear and all of a sudden you can't recover your assets right that's one of the risks but you also don't want it so concentrated where people can just hack out of your system and say okay I've

Taken control of you know 30% of your nose and now I can back out all these decentralized yes that would not be a good look so once again you've just gonna make sure that you tweak this until it's right yeah and then we're

Taking our time we're reaching out to partners to join us especially she was going to queue for it to help us do stress test the system hmm well that's it's interesting now with regard to the biz development you've really focused on

Trying to expand this you have a Justin son or Justin son I'm sorry about pronunciation and also you have Hassan Khan as more members and contributed to the business side what are they doing specifically in these regions they

Represent okay her son actually is our tech lead over here a director of engineering so he's working with us on on the engineering side in us and caring for us from atomic which you know I'm really happy he's been with us he's made

A lot of improvements on the asset gateway which is our centralized a solution for interoperability right now and justin is in the European zone and he's doing what's what I'm doing as well you know he reaches out to traditional

Banking you know some of the the new digital banks such the new digital banks that have come on in Switzerland let's say right and establish relationships with them he's he's like the biz dev guy of it okay I would love to talk to him

Further especially since you know I have open the door of regulation and the imperatives of that later but it's good to hear that you're expanding you know your team I think that many people want to hear about the program

Of fusion or any any startup need to see evidence of expansion in that area now here's a tough question and no one likes to talk about it but the token let's go there now the SI the f SN token the first thing I want to ask is why do you

Need it now why is essentially do you need to have a token to run and you know a very strong and replete ecosystem for fusion well someone's taking a risk of story you know you're running a server so you got to pay somebody like in the

Traditional sense right is the argument I would pay this money to maybe Amazon or something I pay him $2,000 a month to run service for me and keep all this data all right well now I'm no longer doing that I'm giving it to the

Blockchain network to do so how do people who are running this botching network get compensated well let's let's use the fusion get as a gas for that right so that's that's kind of like the primary way that I think about it as the

Utility token okay so micro payments you know you know a fundamental feature or component of utility tokens at the moment the way we deem them valuable so where does it fit when we come back to that terminological anomaly of money or

Currency and utility the beauty with our intraoral platform is I'm not tying you to use fusion as the payment token I'm just it's the gas that pays the servants if it's a gas that powers the blocking network but because we can bring in any

Coin into our system you can you use anything for payments right so if you want to use stable coins that's totally fine why should you use why should you have to issue a fusion bond when you can issue let's say a USD bond that's

Wrapped within the fusion protocol which can interact and be paid out with ether or Bitcoin sure and it makes perfect sense but if we go back to some of those points you made before about incentivization for example once you

Cross over from gas into incentivization there's also implications of you know once again rewards you know for work done so in that's context you know you know how do we explain that when it comes to utility hmm well what you you

Have to let me think about the right way Zetas the ecosystem has to evolve right as the ecosystem gets stronger than the entire the entire as a platform involves the entire ecosystem get stronger that's the

Right way if I'm introducing more tools than anybody who's building with it they all stand to benefit so it naturally makes sense like a fusion happens to be the utility that you're actually improving the utility of this network

For so that's what we're going to you know reward you for because you're improving the usability of the entire network yeah exactly and so that's what it seems to be happening is that we're literally trying to redefine you know

Asset an asset class and perhaps utility and you know other asset classes and classifications will change in the future so that it does encompass a little bit more of some of those things that you're suggesting now one of the

Things I wanted to go over some of this tough stuff is the the price is roughly about 25 cents designs 10 USD if market market cap around about eight point three mil at the moment supply around 35 mil

Sorry circulate supply total supply in 57 point 3 now I raise those points because your old time high was over $9 there's a vast difference between 25 cents and $9 so I just want to open this up and let you

Take the floor and address you know if I take the Aussie sort of phrase why the bloody hell was the difference so great between $9 old-time PI and now yeah well I wish we all knew what the market conditions were but there are

Some fairly obvious things that we can address get out of the way you know when it was a $9 just do a kind of correlation analysis with what the general all coins were doing and what eath was doing right that's that's when

Eighth was that you know of course $1,000 or so right there was a nice little move then the entire alcohol market got hit I mean if we went to the bear or into the bear market I would argue that all coins are definitely

Still in a kind of bear market situation right now there's just only so many funds that are sloshing around in the crypto currency despite all this talk about how you know if digital currencies are being accepted and they are but from

An investment standpoint it's still a very small pool that's that's kind of controlling the tokens right there's not huge like billions of dollars of money coming in yeah so in that sense of course the total you know people are

Kind of reallocating their risk their feeling they see the general all coin market hurt so they kind of hedge themselves they go through major points this is just like a standard trading situation when the stock market sells

Off let's say the S&P 500 is toss off what do i go to i go to the major names i go to maybe of you know a trusted name of back then I would have said General Motors but I can't say that anymore maybe it's kind of like a ghoul or

Something like there's some main sting names that people gravitate towards and all that kind of small cashless opera sure but just to go back to this to help us better understand and Ferhat perhaps those who aren't privy to some of the to

Understand the backend inner workings of the way in which sometimes crypto plays out before you even move to list what does tend to happen is you see VC is trying to invest you know in the pre-sales and the private sales as you

Know that was a very common play and still use it to some degree and that many of them you know their core focus is to offload those tokens at some point for profit so and we've seen that play out across the board and that explains

Often why there's such major declines in value of digital assets now is was that a problem do you think for fusion in comparison to others especially when they're talking about a really serious difference between you know $9

Yeah actually if you take a look at the the wallets and the major we call the if you wanted to call them whales but the major people who've got participated within the the original ICO they haven't actually moved out there's still big

Believers in the project you know I I wasn't here when the ICO was done but we still talk to a lot of the original believers of our project right and of course everyone is you know not happy with the performance of the token it we

Don't feel that it reflects the value of the project but there are still believers of what DJ and fusion and the team are building here right so it's almost like it's a matter of it's a waiting game it's a matter of us proving

It but you know we just got to keep our eyes focused continue to build out the adoption and the technology I just know the token price will reflect the value of the network that word for sure and what would you say to those that

Obviously not everyone's you know as as altruistic or as future driven as some of HAP's some of those bean seeds did invest what would you send those parties that did invest in you from the beginning but really did that only to

Essentially sell-off interferes at some point and then move into other assets was really just a move to gain capital and utilize you as a mechanism to do so you know obviously that you know does affect the trust from the people from

The crypto community in these projects because we just see that so is it an issue and and what would you say to those parties the market is what the market is going to be right you're gonna have people who are speculators and

People who are believers in the project no I don't I don't fault anyone for taking position that they have right that's that's not my position to judge anyone I don't have anything negative or positive say to the

Speculators they're just the force in the market you know I would just like to do an analogy and I know this analogy is a bit dangerous because there's a utility comparison to a security and you know that's I'm just drawing on my

Background is it the fault of a speculator when they go and buy a bunch of let's say put options or a bunch of cautions within Google or Facebook and they tried the price is up or down not really they're just a force in the

Market right of course if you're a long term holder of Facebook and then let's say it goes down 20% because someone's someone's been levering a leveraging up on puts you're not going to be happy with the effect on

Your price mmm but again the market has a way of sorting itself out right and until it does so the interesting point is that because it's such a small market and really comparatively to you know the bigger

Markets you've worked in before this is very very small there's certainly room for manipulation in this space you know it's very East you do it often very liquid startups particularly we've seen that play and in the past and even now

So given those concerns surely you know it does have a bit of an effect on you when we go and look at for example the performance of your token and really see such concerning declines over time that really makes it tough to

Put you know confidence back into starts like you does it so so what do you do to combat that I mean you just head down by Mike and just keep working and be tech focus to do business focus or you know what's the strategy for the same yeah

Yes the primary things is to be kind of you gotta be business flow because that's the best where you prove to utility of your token of your network right it's kind of show me show me what you guys are actually doing but as well

The belief the community is very important you know DJ is often in the community itself answering the questions and they're you know when the token price is where it is nobody's very happy right now we're not

Kind of disappearing anything like that we're in the community trying to answer questions as much as we can but also know that we have to balance the time like if we're in there and community answering questions all the time they

Were not pushing ahead in business or partnerships or technology where we should be so we always have to you know this is just a reach out to community when we don't answer it's not because we don't want to it's just because we

Literally have to take care of some other stuff right and I totally understand that and I appreciate it now with lock ups I want to talk about that in terms of protecting you know the the incoming consumer you know the

Incoming participant in the ecosystem say they want to purchase the utility token for whatever reason have you made sure with the structures that were in place or prior to you that they're those parties

That invested initially have long-term lock ups or has that now been exhausted if if a VC wanted to quit they technically just offload now unfortunately I'm not privy to the lock-up periods that were worth present

In place so I can't answer that question okay I'll have to check that one but you know obviously it's a concern more as a a general thing across the board one of the things with your roadmap want to ask you about plans for things like virtual

Machine expansion of the asset gateway what'swhat's plan what's the what's the plan for the next say for three or four months as you really start to build out your asset well the the asset gateway is as I mentioned it's the centralized

Option right because if we like to give tools for every person needs a tool for what what they want to actually get done you know D CRM is great from a decentralized standpoint maybe as a prime organization or a custody prefer a

Centralized solution we leave it up to you the asset gateway we've already be able to lock into Ethan the ERC 20 coins as I mentioned next we want to do is actually lost mark in some Bitcoin and then there are other major points that

We want to add onto it maybe the COS maybe it's stellar but just just throwing some some coins out there for consideration so that's what we're talking about we're seeing expanding the asset gateway we're also working with

Actual custodians to adopt the asset gateway so that you know the problem with the centralized solution is well there's a central risk associated with and fusion we're not a custodian so we want custodians to actually take that

Asset gateway and manage risk on the user's behalf okay the different virtual machine updates is all about having the smart contract recognized not just the fusion tokens the fusion wrapped tokens but also the concept of the time locks

And time values with those tokens right so now I can have smart contracts that trigger a three months time lock of a certain token and that's gonna be a really exciting have a change when that that we'll be introducing to the

Industry absolutely now with regard to big names obviously can't sign them probably because of MDAs but what in terms of partnership pipelines what's there you know what can you hint to us and to give

Us confidence that there's been partnerships prepared for the next the coming months you I can say that the partnerships that I'm talking to now are actually more technology focus I think this reflects

The fact that we're doing an adoption push on the technology front and you should be seeing a few names come to light in the next couple of months some of them are actually interesting the fact

That they make our our decks more powerful I mean I'm very excited by some of the discussions on having Ida but as you're saying I can't share the exact names yet okay well we'll stay tuned for those now

P are another really tough question perhaps you won't like some of this but I looked into sort of your PR strategies in the past and certainly influences were engaged and there were other methods we could go to try and get the

Information out what are your thoughts on the way that more generally influences for example or media in crypto some of those articles we see from them you know well well-respected names like Forbes we now see a cryptic

Element of that what are your thoughts on the way in which firstly fusion has gone about promoting their you know their their startup and then you know the more generic general macro comment about they approached it that there's

Tend to take we're we're a big believer of earned media as much as we can right so we put substance if news out there and we this is like a very traditional approach we generate interesting subsidy news and

Wait for people to proactively reach back out to us and that that worked very well in the cases of axb worked very well in the case of yad for example because we were actually interested in this type of build-out of course there

Are situations where other projects have huge marketing budgets and and they kind of plow their way to get their awareness off you know we're always looking at the right balance between earn media and every now and then it does make sense to

Have a sponsor type of media so that people are aware of actually what we're doing when we talk about subjects like interoperability for example since the most of the the few the crypto community it's still a very gray concept it's not

Very tangible right it's very easy when I can say alright someone's just built you know some kind of payment gateway that's come in and and they're actually showing up they're swiping a credit card or something that's something people can

See in touch and that the press will react very well to that when I say it's interoperability it's it's more like a protocol layer type of it's like a protocol right it's like technology type of situation so how do I get people

Excited about that in that case you know we're thinking maybe some kind of explainer video or something from a professional that's from one of these big sites could be very helpful right well once again thank you for being

Transparent about different ways that your team approach you know media what was interesting when I did the research just looking into various representatives in the crypto space we saw the likes of Chico crypto of la

Chrigel arc as well they've been engaged previously both done sponsored content Chico crypto does disclose very clearly you know what trends what money does transact between he and you so you know in that respect that says it's very

Transparent and clear but do you think that more generally there's a you know an issue with the way in which some some influences are not suggesting those two perhaps you know take a more populist position and maybe don't necessarily

Understand all the fundamentals to you know exactly what the value is yes there definitely is a problem and I would say it's not limited towards blocking age only enhanced and blockchain because

It's such a new it's such a new technology it's a complicated type of concept that not many people get right now you know when we think about this whole idea of influencers it's still very young concept you know how often

Has influencers really come to play it used to be that I would look onto the chiana it would be Michelle Pfeiffer's using X Y & Z so on the ground you know that's a type of influence that I grew up with but with the you know with

Technology with YouTube etc this whole personality of influencer is being able to drive business and done by business I mean maybe it's product placement maybe whatever it's gonna be right brand awareness has really taken off in the

Last I would just say two to three years right and it must be hard also to do the due diligence to run assess you know those who are there for the long term will write all those were just simply there to you know you know take from the

Ecosystem and you know essentially get rich do you go through a process yourselves trying to look at those that are genuinely there for education therefore you know informing the public properly yeah as much as we can you know

We definitely we do our background check you know we get a lot of incoming mail from people saying hey you know I see you here you can raise your winners by X Y & Z we charge whatever it is right and we don't engage with them our engagement

Rate of a return on it's actually something in a low ten percentage to actually talk to somebody and usually this also comes whether it's cheaper crypto for example or yourselves for example it comes through reference

Checks writes you know other projects say you should talk to this person I say right they they know what they're talking that's really good to know because you would certainly know this in your position in the ico craze and then

Subsequent even now there's some of the more prominent popular influences let's say you know without trying to disparage anyone their fees are immense you know and you know because of that it is becomes a bit of a deterrent more

Generally for people like you you know to try and just try and clean the system up and say look it's fine to have a great you know philosophy for education but don't charge us such ridiculous amounts

Correct men's uh yeah I mean I agree with you 100% a lot of the industry I would say you're gonna have the people who like the Hollywood stars or something like that are they overcharging maybe maybe not I am you

Definitely have we're both aware that some definitely are overcharging and as a whole the industry themselves have also kind of revenge mark themselves a lot of the legitimate influencers have talked down their own price because

They're aware that the industry is what it used to be right and that's a good thing you know because once again we start to move more to you know acceptance of value in and the real to in the real

World now you team you talked about you know developments there I want to talk a bit more about your CEO actually I'm not sure to pronounce his name is it de Jong just call him DJ DJ okay no DJ okay now he apparently was heavily

Involved in created kutiman and the channel was how that core team now should that be something we is a boom for you given his experience or is it something that is more of a challenge because you know

Obviously they each to do each of those sites have their own pros and cons and their own challenges for me it's a boon because I mean he's clearly still in cases where not only does he know the technology itself but he's helped those

Organizations launch into very successful projects now that obviously when he when DJ was involved with the likes of the V chains and the cute I was before my time it was actually before my time of even being involved in the

Blockchain industry but I certainly know his lineage and it was very helpful in validating that DJ is not just another person who was like hey where's my lambo I I'm just wrong like a like a transfer of a white paper with nothing behind it

He's actually got the technologies built-in technology platforms before right and I did check with that he does have the academic credentials as well he has a degree in computer science so that was important and he has that ability

Behind him yeah yeah I know Leo's yeah III view it net-net as a positive okay so how's it been working with him in terms of you know evidence of leadership and a successful drive of the holy a whole ecosystem in all of its different

Verticals yeah he's definitely got to the vision right I think he's got the Internet and Valley in the defy vision that helps me orientate myself a lot of times because I'll say you know no matter what I do I

Come from a traditional finance background also come from a traditional part at that bound you know there's like yes John some of your constraints are very valid right now but you know don't worry about is because where I see that

We should be going to towards do right that's the type of leadership almost like a distortion field that you need around yourself to a certain degree right I mean you don't want to be completely out of touch with reality I

Think he walks a good balance between I got a drive this organization despite all the chaos that's happening right now I got a drive on an ant nation it's really interesting you say that you know he's the arm the iconic sort of optimist

Of the space you know the real true blockchain believer but then in your team you also have member a code reviewer that's well-known Andre Kayne he's the head of innovation and technology yeah he's been quoted several

Times he's one of the very candid speakers this face saying that 99% of the space is no nuts in the space is you know going to die so you know you have that interesting sort of interplay between your CEO and that kind of vision

Or that perspective how do you put yourself in the 1% you know how do you you know move away from being part of the the high-risk group with the exact approach of trying to keep Andre and his frankness with us right because you know

He's gonna call her a project on whether we're walking the right path the wrong path and it's it's a tension that has to happen right you know just like in any organization there's visionary and there's a practical practical person

Who's gonna take care of business making sure that you're walking you're not spending a bunch of fluff oh yeah and I guess certainly Andre he punches and he certainly yeah and and you know he's honest about when he thinks he can

Really help out with a project and when he's like okay guys you guys go fix this stuff first and then I'll come back in when when the time is ready I mean I really always appreciate his open dialogue it's always more helpful to be

Transparent and truthful exactly now with regard to the number of engineers that you have number internal divs I couldn't work out exactly what the number is or I couldn't assess the size of that compart the

Component of your team do you feel you've got the right number and you know and can you just update us on the engineers senior team sure with the you know the engineering team is always in flux right especially as we're kind of I

Like to say restructuring the organization to being kind of we were from launching the main net to now we're going into this kind of adoption with this new technology right so the team always needs to be tighter and kind of

Bringing new resources into into the mix that's why you saw the lights of Hassan join us and there's going to be more people that were I'm looking to hire now as far as the the protocol team I'll give you ranges right because that's

Always helpful you know it's gonna be 15 to 20 developers that we have in China who are actually working on the protocol it comes and goes just like any startup asks as to build up really accelerates we're going to be hiring more people

Kind of pushes to the top of that in the US we have the US and Europe we have three engineers right now and that's also comes and goes you know I've had to hide the highs we had like five or six developers kind of working on the

Project and right now we're taking almost like a there's almost like a low here as we're we're kind of we sharpening we focus in team on this new adoption era so that's why we're at three got up so obviously you know the

Pressures of the you know the more the more macro financial status of crypto is another reason why they'd be that flux in the number of employees or the number of people new team but what are you doing to sustain your team long term you

Know beyond reliance on tokens because obviously there's finite amounts of that and every startup pretty much how do you create revenue but yes so the to answer that question number one is how are we doing what are we doing to kind of make

Sure that there's longevity in our team well you have to manage your burn rate just like any startup right that's why you have to be very mean to resources grow when you need to and kind of play it and cut down when you need to as well

Probably looking to grow our revenue well that goes with the project offerings that we have but you know coming out some of them I cannot say but you know some of the licenses that we've already announced like a licensing

Structure user nology for X number of tokens that's a very easy way to monetize the value that we have that we bring to people I say and is that successful yet you know is that starting to be actualized it's to

Be franca this goes to what I said earlier you know enterprises still need to figure out exactly how they deal with tokens and there have been some people who have signed up for the program we've announced those you'll see that they're

Mostly technology firms because they know how to handle tokens but where we really start getting the type of you know that that revenue growth that we're looking for is the more traditional commercial entities of like maybe it's

Gonna be that hedge fund the next door or something like that but they need to figure out what to do with with a token right so we have to mean we have to insert a layer two to do this transaction where it's like here's your

Fiat so just feet is a traditional license hey as a traditional traditional cache and we'll just take care of all the token time locks on the back end of that right clearly you know from what we've been talking about to we just need

That regulation regulatory push you know some sort of you know light bulb moment for them to have that domino effect so that then you know think we can start to see really exciting tons emerge for the business potential now I want to move

Across something really tough to talk about and that is the hack you know that is the the theft wanted to find out more about what exactly happened there because when I went in the research there was some suggestions it could have

Even been an inside job six 6.4 million dollars was lost and it wasn't that long ago can you just comment on what you can to address in a quite sincerely a serious issue from the community as we as you continue to build yeah I mean

It's it's definitely a serious issue and it's always one of these setbacks or it's like okay great you know people are aware of our projects of course they're they go in you know attack the project cause it's well-known right and there

Are certain information is use that I can't share but based on the trails evidence that we seen it definitely had to be someone that had close access to the foundation right because they had they were able to get access um to

Private keys and cold wallets so that makes it it limits out you know the certain types of entry points that you can have to to kind of be able to do that a type of sass with us now we're still working

With the police so I can't share any more on exactly who the suspects are okay then our ongoing well it must be really disconcerting at the very least you know that it could be someone in your team I mean that's one of the

Challenges with this pseudonymous sort of system where you know it's difficult to perhaps sometimes trace exactly who but at the same time clearly you are taking the right steps to do the best you can but in terms of remediation you

Know what it what are you doing as a start-up to you know can consolidate the the trust in your communities you know obviously talk about trustless systems when it comes to trusting startups that's a little different given that

This theft did happen how can you reassure the community that you are doing things to remedy this yeah well the first thing you got to do is this is almost kind of like a disaster recovery the standard playbook right you gotta

Show people what happened that's number one what what are you doing to kind of mitigate the results which we've been doing we published some of the stuffs that we have and it's it's too long but you know involves hard Forks and whatnot

And we still have to respect the wishes of the community and the whole concept of blockchain so we took our time to actually choose right path with the help of the community but most of you importantly as you said before what are

We doing to prevent it going forward right it's because it's great to put a stop to this but man what if someone else steals remaining 13 million tokens that are sitting in X Y & Z wallet we'd ever wonder if they're still there what

If this mouth has ballot to still say yeah hopefully hopefully not there are steps that we've done as far as like distributing the risk of the wallet so that no single wallet holds that much risk I mean there were some reasons that

We had to to kind of move the tokens in this particular case because we were activating all these different campaigns that I've mentioned right no oh not gonna repeat that type of mistake again and there are also things that were

Examining we're introducing even our own technology just makes a lot of sense right with the decentralized the key sharding that we have i unlock that we can insert on top of it you'll see that in the dead the bounties

That we're gonna announce soon it's gonna be how can we enhance hot wallets and also add a protection on private keys right using the technology that we have got up so clearly you put in these significant strategies and and sort of

Crypto plays to combat some of the the issues that hasn't occurred but even the PR disaster that it was yeah that the most tangible steps when you think about is distribute the risk and then work with custodians right I mean we've

Pretty I can't give you the the bank that we're working with you but we're through like you know opening a bank account is always a very lengthy process but we're working with traditional custodians to help further protect the

Assets that we have got up now in terms of staking that place it's a good segue because I want to try and understand how you're staking models really going to affect the circulate circulate circulating supply in terms of once

Again people always looking for this concept of asset you know not just necessarily you know that the potential of money and so in that sense you know but how does thinking really make that the token sexy for those who have that

Mindset visual asset well the speaking on the loan isn't going to be to your point that's not going to be the end driver of where the value to network is going to be right this is staking is just what we're using in a time being to

Encourage that we have valid a very robust set of participants making sure that our network is pretty expansive that's why we have 300 plus nodes across all over the world kind of powering these transactions because it the the

More participants you have in a system the more battle-tested it is right and hence the more secure but the one of the side effects of that is it does affect your supply and some people really focus on that so can you talk to us a little

Bit about that despite that that's not the you know the the reason of all values every yeah I mean when you have staking rumors I'm there's an inflationary pressure that has to be combated so that on the other side there

Are two things that all blockchain projects gonna do number one get assets and transactions onto the system which is one reasons why we're doing these kind of developments what can we do to issue assets

What type of other projects where I can run more transactions in our system because that burns down obviously its supply right and the second part that we can do as well is the happening which odd this one I'll have to do refer to DJ

On his exact timing but of course there is a hole happening cycle that we're going to have where the returns on Stegner just not gonna be as lucrative as they are or attractive as they are right now okay

And that's obviously another reason you know for those who are focused on their digital asset side and even in a speculative realm which is still a valid part of crypto they be assessing these kinds of moves you're making to once

Again affect the supply and thus you know and also directly affect the security or to make sure it is strong and distributed so interesting times for you in that sense one of the things I really did want to touch on before we

Finish off is another tough question about the risks of wash trading that are happening beyond your control we know they're happening in crypto more generally so there are certain various actors in the exchange domain or the

Exchange sector I had a look at some of the lists so I just want to touch on you know for example hotbed you know a very controversial exchange I think we can all fairly state Alma moving towards a million dollars of 24-hour volume there

And then we look at the likes of finance for example significantly less you know and rightly so perhaps so then we move to ID X or we'll be with almost very almost no volume you know when it comes between for our trading so that kind of

Vast distinction between hot bit and the others is why I want to talk to you about inherent risks of wife training is it an issue across the board there's a specific so there's a micro issue on address first right the reason why

You're seeing the discrepancy between the likes that were hopping in the lobby right now is because some of the exchanges there because of the stuff that we've had right there working with us and we're limiting buys and

Withdrawals and not in essence limiting trades are there and a half and because we don't want to seem to be able to monetize or tokens that's why you're seeing a drop on a lot of major exchanges in the bond itself now on the

Macro question that should ask is wash trading an issue of course it's it's an issue and some of the exchanges are at like alright 70% to 80% of their volume is going to be washed trading the tough news that we're all recognizing

Some regulators are coming after that right you're seeing you're seeing headlines for for wash trading being crackdown on yeah that one well that's good to hear you know so in the long term clearly once then remove from the

Equation we can get more a better understanding of what true and authentic Christ values are because clearly when there's watch trading in there we just really don't know what the the genuine values are of each of these assets but

Once again I mean it's been an absolute privilege talking to you John you've been more than forthright and certainly transparent in this conversation and it's been a more lengthy than we did anticipate no thank you

Once again for explaining these partnerships you're doing explaining the value of your your protocol explaining that the you are certainly trying to push forward in the d-phi sector and also trying to enable interoperability

When it comes to real viable business so mate on behalf of all people thank you for explaining that that non-for-profit protocol thanks for explaining your revenue models to me building a couple that the products

There's a lot going on to you you know what would you like to say to us all as a final statement yeah well first of the community thing thank you for the continued faith in the project itself especially student tough times that were

Having and seconds to just in general like the interoperability solution that we talked about decentralized custody and interoperability all in one is something I'm very excited the fusion team is really excited to

Bring to the market in q4 right and working with the likes of a Morpheus lab is only going to enhance the awareness and adoption of the technology like that in industry as a whole is going to benefit absolutely will might thank you

Once again for leading the way in these areas and certainly be great to catch up with you or other members of the team in the future but until then all the very best with fusion and keep building keep going thank you

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