DEBATE A VEGAN: Brown University Students vs Veganism

by birtanpublished on September 29, 2020

so I'm here at Brown University in
Providence and over tablecloth and it
says the statement can you justify not
being vegan and so you guys have kindly
stopped to have a conversation and so I
was wondering what justification would
you use to not be vegan I think what I
would save like not being vegan is like
one main source of like I like drinking
milk for instance like like when I was
younger like definitely like just like
growth and like stuff like that because
I've always been told like milks been
like it's just such a good option um and
you know I mean it's just like kind of
from a young age like once you started
you out of me I don't know I just I feel
like me like just that whole thing like
chicken fish everything like like
whether it's like I fished a lot like as
a kid like I'd catch a fish and you know
I would eat it or like you know my uncle
my uncle is big on hunting like when he
would go hunting like he wouldn't not
like once he would kill the animal like
he wouldn't just leave it like he would
eat it and it was just something like
culturally growing up that was something
that we saw as like a part of our lives
just to interject that you I guess we
were found predominated to protein rise
up a new trend I guess the question will
be can we get protein from plant-based
sources yeah I think kind of going off
what he said I would just say that I
mean like eating foods that come from
animals this is weak protein has just
been like I made part of my diet since
I've been you know a little kid and I
mean not to mention I enjoy eating those
foods that makes me happy so I just
can't imagine like taking that like out
of my diet
I mean so I mean I think the point is if
we can get protein from from plant-based
sources then that ruse is somewhat of an
element of necessity but there's two
points you touched upon inside I kind of
want it touch up on both of those but I
think the biggest one is that is that
one of enjoyment first of all and do you
think that our happiness should come at
the suffering of someone else or I guess
more to the point do you think that
something like sensory pleasure a taste
enjoyment is a good enough moral
justification for taking the life of
someone else I mean when you put it like
that not not necessarily well has my
about you taste Oh life life yeah i mean
i would definitely say life has higher
value but
you know to completely alter my diet
like all at once I don't think that
would be like a feasible thing for me so
I mean I'm all for like maybe
introducing some new sources of protein
or like things like that but you know a
complete 180 switch from all like do you
find it somewhat like scary the prospect
of making that change like going on but
one day I'm I'm eating meat dairy and
eggs the next day I'm completely vegan
exactly it's quite daunting yeah I
company in Sun yeah I was at that point
at one stage as well and the point you
made was about culture and I guess the
question is does culture or should
culture dictates morality and what's
right in Iran I mean I think I think
yeah I mean that's obviously tough
question like I I stopped hunting after
middle school but because I guess there
was just a part of me that felt it was
wrong but I mean I think the whole like
yeah the culture aspect like it's gonna
just be tough to change so many people
who have grown up that way and I mean
for me it's like I feel like the big
thing about you know eating meat like
you gave the like the life like we're
like when we're eating it like we're not
really thinking about the proud of the
steps that went through it we're just we
just see what's on the table and we
enjoy it and I think that if I mean I
don't know like if we saw it firsthand
I mean I mean obviously I think that
would change you know your views on it a
little bit just like like how I mean
because just cuz you don't like when you
as the consumer you don't see what it
went through to get to get to your play
you didn't say disconnection yeah
exactly I think so do you think that if
you were in a slaughterhouse Newsome one
animal being killed to say a cow if a
cow has been killed in front of you do
you think you'd go by stake strapped
woods yeah and I mean that's I've seen
like some of those videos and
in the moment when I watch those it
definitely makes me like second-guess
but what does that tell us about the
process that if when we see it it
somehow makes us feel uneasy what does
that tell us about how we feel about it
I guess that it goes back to your
initial point of whether you'd value
like the taste like life more so yeah um
yeah it's like I think if you value the
taste more or just the idea of eat I
mean yeah the taste I mean like if yeah
if I was at a slaughterhouse that
specific Ali I wouldn't be able to eat
it but like in a week I I mean I I feel
like it's just that I think people I
think I value I mean maybe not the taste
but well yeah maybe the taste consuming
it's something that I didn't see it
happened so I didn't necessarily like I
don't feel responsible in any way when I
eat the meat it's like a degrees of
separation where we place ourselves out
of that system and somehow we remove
that responsibility from ourselves
do you think that what happens in
slaughterhouses is humane the standard
practice what is the word what is the
word human mean to you guys
think about that for a second what would
be like a synonym of humane if I said
you're a humane guy you'd be like I miss
be a kind of guy compassionately respect
for like life first I would say
compassion for compassion respect for
life yeah I think they like the
dictionary definition is having are
sharing compassion or benevolence and so
the question would then become is taking
the life of an animal or someone as I
would say someone who wants to live and
who doesn't need to die could that have
to be done in a compassionate or
benevolent way and yes I guess that
would be the question cuz well what do
you think ever be compassionate I I
think I think it can be compassionate
when it's not done without like like
slaughterhouses there will never be
compassionate because there's no like
there is no compassion there but I would
say like the argument of like when you
hunt like if you hunt the animal I mean
like animals in the wild do that to each
other so I'd say like when you hunt it
and you decide to eat it I would say
that there's a sense of compassion there
because you are doing what the rest like
it what in it like when a lion kills a
gazelle right like it's doing it for
food like it when I kill a deer I mean
all I mean I'm doing it for food – I
feel like in that situation there is a
sense of compassion do you think it's
wise to base our morality on the actions
of wild animals I mean alliance good
role models for how we should how we
should live as well well then it's I
mean then it's the whole point of like I
mean why should we be any different than
any other animal I mean because we have
I mean because were more developed but
then at that point then why wouldn't we
be able to eat the meat well it is is
rape and murder justified because
animals rape and murder know so it just
because an animal in the wild does
something it's that's intrinsically
natural for them does it mean whether
than justified to do in what we call a
civilized society but then why wouldn't
it be intrinsically natural for us to
eat the animals I think I think that the
point is at a time it probably was for
our survival but part of the
responsibility of being a part of a a
morally conscious society is assessing
and changing actions and so
I don't doubt for a second at some point
in our existence I mean we relied on me
to survive and it formed a very
essential part of our diet but the
question now is does it still serve that
I mean well I just think like right now
in today's society it's entirely
unfeasible to get everyone to switch
from like an animal diet to a non animal
diet so I think maybe like some
incorporation of a non animal diet for
people who like want to try that out is
good but you know to completely switch
is just completely not it's not feasible
at all but is it feasible for you guys i
mean that i don't doubt it'll be some
people to find a harder than others what
about you – you know we're improvidence
in the u.s. we've got Target Walmart's
you know what my sorry Whole Foods if
there was like a plant-based option that
you know had the same like calories like
carbs stuff like that like protein that
also tasted I mean if it tasted half oh
I think that's my own again well have
you heard of Bill meat now right that's
another thing like I don't think we hear
about the options either I mean I mean
that if I would be down to try it but it
was the same if it was the same exact
you know like health or you know yeah
effects that it gives and yeah I would
try it for fair and you made a point
about hunting being kind of would be a
deemed a compassionate way and so the
form of hunting would be to shoot an
animal are you talking like a crossbow
what would what would be the
conventional way that you define I mean
I think some I mean I'm trying to think
I didn't really use in the sense of like
the act is compassionate just kind of
compared to slaughterhouses
compassionate but you would define to be
more compassionate but I would say more
compassionate I wouldn't say I mean the
killing of anything is well this is
where yeah yeah I mean I don't know it's
yeah I mean I guess a crossbow like oh
they like I don't know I mean you don't
want anything that doesn't allow it to
suffer because
obviously in the slaughterhouses they
actually suffer more than compared to
like if you're hunting something you
shoot it and it dies right away but um
so we would define it's being more
compassionate but not necessarily
objectively compassionate yeah not
necessarily objectively compassionate
yeah and if we were to say substitute
say you're out in the in the in the
fields or the woods of Connecticut or
Rhode Island and and instead of a deer
down the the site it's now a Labrador
but would it change your opinion on
whether to pull the trigger yeah yeah I
think that's a good culture side of it I
thought yeah I think that's the culture
side the dogs have been never eat a dog
but yeah but Marley is there a
difference between eating a dog or a
deer or a cow which is more socially
acceptable to shoot the deer or you know
kill a cow also because dogs in society
have been looked at as you know a house
pet yeah like when I gave two dogs I had
to have had two dogs growing up my
entire life like it's like yeah they
become like a part of your family but
then when you have you know like you're
not gonna have a cow in the house or a
wild deer in the house I think that's
just yeah a social thing but in terms of
like there I mean you recognize your
dogs has been like they're individuals
and they have their own like
personalities and yeah yeah do you think
their names give their names do you
think that the animals that we hunt or
even just just buy do you think that
they have their own personalities
they're individuals in the same ways the
dogs makes it slightly harder almost
doesn't it that's right that's what was
that push for me and so say in Southeast
Asia where they they consume dogs and
they have something called the Yulin dog
meat festival right do you think that's
do you think that's moral or should it
I mean I don't want to like I'm in no
place to be criticizing other cultures
yeah absolutely I mean we've criticized
some point female genital mutilation but
that's a cultural practice so we
absolutely have the right to criticize
cultural practices that we deemed to be
immoral I don't know I think that's fine
I mean I I wouldn't want to take part in
that but a good source of protein there
doc me sorry Oh some quinoa yeah um I
think it I mean I think it's 100%
morally wrong also the way that they do
it I think they just wrap the dogs and
like it's just huge thing I mean I think
the way yeah I think yeah I mean I just
think that I don't know there's just
something about dogs or just you know
animals that they do show more
compassion I believe like I think they
have more personality than to other
certain animals like I think they're
smarter than other animals I think like
I would say dogs are a lot smarter than
deer and I think they have more
personality than deer but yeah yeah I
guess it's due for the connection we've
had with them and if I told you that
that pigs have been proven to be more
intelligent than dogs how would that
make you think twice about buying final
Pig meats it was like intelligence
oh sorry yeah bit bit bit speedy if I
told you that that pigs have been proven
to be more intelligent than dogs would
that change your opinion on whether they
should be classified as as a food animal
rather than like a pet animal no no I
was about to get a pig as a pet yeah I
don't really bacon but I guess ham it's
also pygmy right
yeah I don't I don't really know if the
whole intelligence factor like it really
pleased I mean I would have a pig as a
pet though at the same time but yeah I
think that it really just comes down to
the culture I think I died I think it's
so hard to change culture I think yes
like if I mean if it became the cultural
norm to have a plant-based diet then I
think more people would be inclined to
do it
I mean I've like I think just from like
a yeah I mean just going down like from
a young age like you have milk cereal
all the time I mean you have just when
you your kid you eat Lent peanut butter
ham and cheese sandwiches like stuff
like that I mean I just don't think it's
plausible to say that you could change
people I mean I would say it's just hard
for people to change once they get to an
older age and then the idea that it's
not you don't see the firsthand
slaughter of these animals so when
you're eating it it is really all about
taste so yeah I mean I think if people
if they work I can't go to the
slaughterhouse and then like watch the
whole process and then decide to eat
that meat or not I mean I don't think
anyone would actually eat it but you
don't see that so I you know one thing I
would say I mean not for me personally
that I would say over the past decade or
so especially in like the younger
generation yeah I would take more people
are kind of gravitating towards a
plant-based diet I mean I know some of
my friends do that so that's I guess one
positive thing to look at as opposed to
like 80 years past but uh so I guess you
could say that's progress but uh like I
said before I don't see any way where
yeah there could be a complete shift
like right now it has to be a gradual
thing yeah and I think when deny ibly so
it will be gradual but I guess the point
is you've seen your friends made a
change and you yourself used to hunt did
you hunt as well but you yourself used
the hunt and now and then there was
probably a time in your life where
hunting was just was just normal for you
and now it's it's not so much and so we
can all change and we can all we can all
adapt and sometimes it may seem a little
bit scary but not not scary just a bit
like that's not going to happen lesson
but we can be pretty surprising
sometimes and I guess what I'd say to
you guys are just just hope this tube of
educationally watch them the fudge see
how you feel but also have a look at
what options there are and like beyond
me you guys have got a really good place
to be for vegan food and so just have a
look and then just try it and if you
like it well then that's amazing you
know but nothing to lose I'm trying it
yeah yeah you're right
I mean maybe like a two week see how if
it you know changes you know anything
about weight or anything yeah I could I
could do something like that yeah they
say it takes 21 days to change your
habit so did give it maybe 22 days or 28
if you're feeling super kind to me and
then see how you feel after yeah awesome
I appreciate you stopping and talking to
me I really enjoyed that that's good

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