China Must Have a Chernobyl Moment | Yang Jianli

published on July 2, 2020

in 1989 Chinese Communist Party

massacred students in Beijing this year

they covered up the corona virus what

will it take get them to change back at

China uncensored I'm Chris Chappell

31 years ago the Tiananmen Square

massacre made very clear what kind of

government China had the Chinese

Communist Party massacred thousands of

students whose only crime was asking for

freedom for those who survived the

nightmare was only beginning they had to

pretend like nothing ever happened

or face a lifetime of persecution and

exile so today the Chinese Communist

Party the CCP has managed to erase the

Tiananmen Square massacre from the

history books at least inside mainland

China why should the rest of the world

care what happens in China you all have

our own problems well

the ccp's cover-ups and lies do affect

us one way is the coronavirus instead of

dealing with the outbreak early the CCP

tried to cover it up and that helped it

spread around the world so what will it

take to get the CCP to change recently

the Chilean think-tank foundation for

progress invited me to join their

project called dissidents they've been

gathering testimony from people who have

the courage to speak out against

repressive regimes and on their June 4th

program I interviewed Tiananmen survivor

young Jin Li he now lives in exile as a

human rights activist he created the

foundation for China in the 21st century

to talk about what China can become

after the Chinese Communist Party Falls

here's the interview thanks for being

with us today thank you crease so do you

see any parallels between how the

Chinese Communist Party covered up for

Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989 and

how they covered up the corona virus

outbreak in 2020 yes I

have been telling the world the regime

that is a wooden china CCP regime is the

same regime that's a massacred thousands

of student 31 years ago in Tiananmen

Square the nature of this regime has not

changed although China has undergone

tremendous changed especially

economically and today their public

health crisis the criminal barbarous are

great once again

expose the nature of this regime so we

understand that once again this regime

put power and control over human lives

we consider the Solidarity the stability

of its power more important than

anything else so do you think the

Communist Party is responsible for the

corona virus outbreak yes of course and

according to the information and

evidence we have collected actually it's

everywhere if you want to make a little

effort into it you will see Chinese

garment the CCP is almost fully

responsible for the initially

controllable virus outbreak to become a

global pandemic and when the virus

outbreak first happening in China and

the first reaction of the regime is

cover-up because we think this crisis

can make whole society and stable and

the regime always want to look good so

the Karmapa in a suppress free speech

and crackdown on whistleblowers and at

least some expert estimate at least the

delayed three weeks or even longer – we

– virus outbreak that actually helped

the virus to spread to the entire world

there there are people who say that how

the Chinese Communist Party responded to

the corona virus outbreak

it was authoritarian but it was

effective it stopped the spread of the

virus what do you have to say about that

there are a lot of the sayings about

that but we can not forget the fact it

is the CCP then who covered up the

cheese cover out of the situation and

play down the extent of the casualties

in China so that other countries did not

paying close attention to what's going

on and that actually helped the outbreak

have become a global catastrophe and

even in China now we see the virus

outbreak has been put under control

seemingly seemingly but still people

skeptical about the information provided

by the Chinese government

we have no much information whatsoever

whether there's still more cases coming

up every day and how many actually died

we still have no exact number about

eight and because the authority how

authoritative power can put the measures

into the whole society with very

restricted restricted the tools and the

measures and of course you know to

certain degree it will control the

spread of the virus but at the same time

the sufferings of people because the

government's are heavy-handed

restriction on the movement and

everything else especially free speech

how much people have suffered and

has no idea about it and we all know the

whistleblower Leon story

his death actually unleashed the

people's anger against the garment and

cause people to you demanded for free

speech a visa very strong voice is

unprecedentedly strong and the

government instead of learning lessons

and a change in behavior it doubled down

ever since the death of me even now I'm

clamping down on their free expression

expression in a free speech and many

dissidents and citizen journalists ever

since have ever since

Rhonda and disappeared so these facts

should not be overlooked well so whether

we're talking about the TM and square

massacre or the corona virus

it seems the Chinese Communist Party has

a fondness for cover-ups what is it

about the communist system there that

encourages these kind of cover-ups yeah

as I said earlier we put power and

control over human lives when anything

happens anything serious happens there

are authorities know better than anybody


product these incidents or disaster

caused by the government's action either

by negligence or by corrupt behavior so

the first reaction is always to come up

not let people to know what's going on

any juice can trigger people's demand

for more open up for transparency and

can can set off the social unrest so

this is their menu set is always come up

because you know to to continue its rule

to support it to

and we not only used violence but always

use lie always use lies if people know

the truth

the regime cannot sustain so the

understand they're better than anybody

else I think it's really interesting to

compare China and Taiwan's response to

the coronavirus a Taiwan it's another

it's another country of Chinese people

but it's the democracy it handled the

coronavirus in a very open transparent

way and it seems based on the number of

deaths and cases of the coronavirus

taiwan is handled better than any other

country so what did what is the

difference between these two countries

of Chinese people yes it is inevitable

from day one they're going to be contest

between democracy and autocracy in

handling these a crisis and comparing

two systems and the China of course is

the first who affected by baisama Barra

sbrick and Taiwan is very close to China

people would think all Tamil would be

affected will be hit hard but it turns

out to be just the opposite people keep

asking asking why first of all Taiwan is

the probably the country who knows China

best better than any other country who

does not trust what the CCP says

anything because Lee has had you know

tremendous experience dealing with visa

our regime so we don't trust the

information provided by the Chinese

government and just a couple months

earlier when timing was really elected

China cut off the tourists so that

actually cut the people from China

travel to Taiwan but at the same time

when when Wuhan was locked down but many

resident of fire used to travel to the

rest of world now that I want

and additionally Taiwan is very

responsive and common really responsibly

to the people very transparent and these

all contribute to their achievement in

containing is a virus a break very

ironically Taiwan is not the member of

whu-oh the World Health Organization

which is supposed to call it the

international effort to defend the

people's life against the disaster like

this but it turns out to be the the

country that is not the member of whu-oh

where's the best

it says a lot this says a lot so I

always part of the World Health

Organization yeah yeah says a lot about

about WH o Iowa people ask me a question

about Taiwan and WH ill I always say

imagine Mountain Village frequently

attacked by wild animals

hired a defender to engage in collective

defense of the village and one test pot

in the village is bling a villager who

does not like and exclude him from the

connectivity fence system and the

defenders the higher the defender us

some some meat to their evil power of

death thought you know just totally

exclude this villager out of the system

but one day a wolf attacked it tells us

tell us to be that the villager excluded

a villager fares the best suffered the

least the carrot

but all of us suffered much much more

Carol what does that say about of the

defender and the best part so I always

want to tell people what's wrong this is

the example well so China has been very

effective at getting the World Health

Organization to exclude Taiwan it also

seems that the World Health Organization

has actually been praising China's

response to the corona virus since day


why is that yeah that's a very very good

question and we look into the background

of Cairo's the director-general of

whu-oh we found he was on the top

leadership for many years of

authoritarian regime one of the worst

human rights violators in the world and

during his term as Minister of Health of

asabi Ethiopia he actually cover up for

one Boris I don't remember the Boris

name so the people of Ethiopia has made

it public when he was running for the

director-general of whu-oh and I think

he had a track record to show that he's

that what kind of person he is and he he

his record shows he likes and dictators

and supported by dictators

he supported for his candidacy by the

Central American dictators and by

dictator from China and other world

dictators he got elected with a margin

votes and and just a few months after he

assumed the post as a director-general

he appointed Robert Mugabe you know the

new tourist dictator

as a goodwill ambassador of w chill and

only we the pressure

did he recent that opponent so these

things I have a lot of examples this

example shows Kendall's the

director-general WH o likes dictators

feeble stick tweezers and also is a

favorite of the dictators the handling

Lisa current Doris our break

he obviously helped China to come up

when China come up and track down on the


he said openly multiple times that China

committed to change transparency nothing

is further from the truth and you know

he delayed you know according to China's

will to declare this is a global

pandemic and things like that we have a

lot of examples just not two weeks ago

my friend Aaron Bodden myself wrote an

article the key questions dubbed for

whu-oh so I come up we come up with 17

questions directly relax

related to visa to WH o–'s handling of

this of ours are great and I think if if

WH o is to remain critical it must

answer these questions publicly any in

detail the Chinese Communist Party has

also been spreading a message that the

coronavirus didn't actually begin in

China it actually was started by the US

military are these kind of propaganda

tactics common it's a very common and

after the first SH China seemed to

gradually put the virus under control

and at the same time the virus is spread

to the rest of the world launched in

various countries into total catastrophe

with serious economic consequences and

China fund opportunity to engage in this

information campaign so that to rebuild

its public image and also take the

opportunity to play as a leader in

global communist if you will so the

first thing we did at the end of

February was to send out you know the

information the rumors about the origin

of this virus the Virgin of the virus

was once no question is you know is

nobody actually questions the origin of

the virus in the first month that was

haemoo hi why that this mu hi nobody

until the end of February when the top

expert of China in containing the virus

said publicly all three or original

virus may not be in China nominate from

China then after that the the we call a

wolf style diplomat of China you know

use the social media that is the

forbidden in China she'll spread out

this rumor about the origin of the virus

first we we blame the US military of to

bring the virus to China then Italy just

a couple days ago the people's daily the

the party is a mouthpiece features an

article saying that an expert in France

just to report it

how the virus actually develop

from some other varsa from France so all

of a sudden the origin of the virus now

we see in France so probably next time

it would be UK and so they try to muddy

the water if you will so that we can

disturb the international effort to come

together to hold China accountable so

this kind of disinformation campaign

does not work

it means the national community but we

must notice that it works the to a

certain degree in China lot of Chinese

people actually believe what the Chinese

government has told them about the

origin of the virus so this is very sad

do you think it will be a situation like

the Tiananmen Square massacre where

people inside China in a few years have

no idea the truth about the corona virus

the Communist Party successfully covers

it up despite the government's best

effort this time I don't think he will

be so successful as a deed in aftermath

of tme massacre

the reason being with the internet

although China has a serious severe

censorship on the information on

internet people still find work right of

ways to get a loan a firewall to get

information from the outside world and

this time even the people in within the

party in the part even on the Li top

leadership have been how to say have

different views than what shrimping has

and also some carnival and the current

has been going wrong trying to form

opposition against the China's leader

dictator Xi Jinping and of course Xi

Jinping has been trying to control a bit

them heavy hand in a measure on the one

hand continue to purge potential enemies

just in a few past weeks couple four top

Singh a senior officials has been purged

and on the other hand continue and

intensify the intein international

action is more aggressively in sauce

South China Sea and other area trying to

prepare or create a military crash or

some kind of clash with outside world to

deflect the parenthesis criticized and

the pressure from internal politics so

she came here trying to do something but

other people at the same time try to

form opposition against them with the

information everything what I would say

despite the best efforts of Xi Jinping

this time I don't think the regime will

be so successful your conference was

allegedly hacked at covent Khan in April

tell us what happened and I gave a

keynote speech at the coffee calm that

was held April 13th yeah and after my

presentation there was qat session and I

answer the three questions when I try to

answer the first question my the string

my computer just went black and I try to

reboot it and try to turn on multiple

times but I fail to do it and yeah then

I just try I call my technical team to

help me and I try to reboot it

to rejoin the conference but we tried it

for a couple of hours we didn't get

turned on and later the organizer of the

conference called me asked me what's

going on and everybody thought that was

attack attacker from CCP and because

these conference had been sending after

notice to let people to join so by the

time the authorities in China must have

been aware of the conference and they

know the purpose of conference they knew

that I would speak so very likely that

if that was attack from China is this

something you have to face a lot yes of

course and we constantly face these kind

of attacks especially when the so-called

sensitive dates when we put together

event commemorating chairman Square

massacre for example we would receive

one attacks one kind of another do you

think with the coronavirus do you think

this will change how the world views

China yes I think the international

relations China's internal relations

rutile under will undergo tremendous a

change and I as we said earlier these

public health crises expose the nature

once again of the CCP regime even to a

larger degree and now one consensus has

gradually build up in the international

community that is we must come together

to hold the CCP

account for its mistake if not the

intention internationally to to harm de

the rest of all for covering up the

outbreak so that the entire war has been

planned to begin such a crisis with you

know hundreds of thousands flights a

loss and that's the consensus I think it

will be build up another consensus is

also in the process of Buena building up

but we don't know which direction it

will take that is many countries now

realize that too much relying on China's

supply not chin will have serious

problem when such a thing happens so I

think in the future international trade

in the future globalization this will be

a very very important question everybody

will consider and will not ignore and as

a result so the relationship of the rest

of the world with China would be no

longer the same as it used to be before

the onset of the virus certainly a big

problem in the corona virus outbreak has

been that China manufactures most of the

world's medical supplies other than

moving these kind of critical supply

chains out of China what are some ways

the international community would be

able to hold China accountable this is a

very difficult difficult question some

individuals have already filed a lawsuit

in court asking China to pay

but there are a lot of obstacles in in

in the law either here or in a

international law anywhere and it's not

an easy job I think it is up to world

leaders the leaders of the world

democracies and their Parliament's to

find a way to bring all the democracy

together to come from China on this

question how we will hold China

accountable and more important questions

when doing this

he'll be evasion that is the opportunity

for them to help China to change and

this pressure should be applied on Xi

Jinping and its regime not on the people

to China if China pay I think ultimately

that that is the burden would be on the

people of China so this pressure I think

should be applied on the regime in the

way that can press the regime to change

to press the leadership to crack open so

that the people and the officials inside

the party who want to move forward to

combine a viable alter

to move China forward so we must have

that vision in doing this and I still

cannot see that movement in the

international community so we will

continue to advocate for that some have

called the coronavirus the Chinese

Communist Party's Chernobyl do you think

that's accurate yes I think the chance

to change China is definitely higher

than for example it was at a Nebraska

and because Lee's cry crisis everything

is changing and I think we

a high chance but we still have to look

at the four factors the first effector

how long the people's anger against the

regime can ask how general how universal

that is I my personal belief is it will

last but we may not see it on the

surface because of the suppression and

there has been general robust these

contained Rita Garman already so this is

just adding up and the second factor is

whether we can translate that people

sentiment demanding for change anger

against the Carmody regime into a viable

Democratic opposition the third factor

is whether the people I mean the

officials in the top leadership can

crack open for many reasons one Xi

Jinping has been building up his

notorious personal personality caught

for his only political gain he removed a

term limit trying to make himself a

present of a life and a failure in the

foreign policy with us in other

countries treat war with China with the

us the philia in Hong Kong the Taiwan

so you name it

so for these policy failures some people

inside party may want to crack open so

that's the third factor we have to look

look at and the fourth factor is

international factor we just talked

about how the democracy can come

together to conference child to press

the regime to open up to crack open to

help China to change and at the same

time when people try to build a new

globalization we have to put that

into consideration should we have the

old I mean the the globalization that we

had before the onset of our trade I

don't think globalization in the future

would be the same but what would be

different what would be different so to

me I think the major powers the major

economies must have a consistent value

system and not only market economy but

in politics in work the globalization as

we had before in work if we're four

major powers democracy market economy

human rights but one major power is

closer society and fair treat violating

human rights and all these things happen

I don't think that can co-exist for long

time in such globalization we have to

put this question into consideration

about what kind of globalization we will

have when all these factors work

together of course China must have a

renewable moment because of these VARs

our brief or not because of this of our

Sabri and you know crisis will happen

anyway I predicted long time ago when I

look at this the four factors I said

once at a hearing in the European

subcommittee or become a rights

the only thing needed probably just of

crisis the crisis will bring the four

factors together so it is happening

thank you very much for joining me in

talking about all of this thank you

thank you crease and thank you for

watching and as I said I did this

interview in collaboration with the

project dissidents which you can find on

dissidence org check out their other


they have content in Spanish and English

the link is below once again I'm Chris

Chappell see you next time



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