China and the United Nations: A New World Order | Anders Corr

published on July 2, 2020

China wants to lead a new world order

and they're using the United Nations to

grab power welcome back to China

uncensored I'm Chris Chappell the United

Nations according to its website the UN

has one central mission the maintenance

of international peace and security

well I certainly like peace and security

don't you and certainly it appears we've

avoided another world war and that's

because the UN is supposed to be a place

where all the countries around the world

can work together for the benefit of

everyone but over the years the Chinese

Communist Party has been getting more

and more influence over the UN and

that's already had serious consequences

for the rest of the world joining me

today is Anders Kor he's the publisher

of the journal of political risk and

principal at core analytics thanks for

joining me thank you so first of all

let's talk about the latest controversy

China now has an influential position in

the United Nations Human Rights Council

how did the Chinese Communist Party get

in the UN body meant to monitor freedom

of speech arbitrary detention and

enforced disappearances is it because

they're so good at those things well no

they're they're one of the worst at

those things they're well-known as one

of the world's worst human rights

violators yet they've used their

influence in the UN to get that position

they they trade votes they they badger

people they bribe people it's it's

typical carrot-and-stick tactics to

achieve those kinds of positions for

these audit autocratic countries well so

what kind of impact might China have on

the UN Human Rights Council well they're

gonna have a bad impact I mean it's it's

exactly counter to the human to human

right so you know it's a big it's a big

problem that they've joined they're

they're now already cutting down speech

when when when if you have a human

rights activist or a nonprofit

organization come to speak of the Human

Rights Council they will typically

try to shorten the amount of speaking

time that they have they'll try to keep

people out like they kept dolkun isa

who's a famous Weger activist and

representative of the world Weger

congress so they'll they there they'll

use every dirty trick in the book to

keep human rights out of the human

rights council that's that's incredible

how can that be tolerated well a lot of

countries you know our the UN is

essentially run by the elites the

political elites of each country the

political leadership of each country and

this and political leadership's of each

country are typically closely linked to

the economic elites of each country and

those economic elites of course are

making money often in China and if

they're not making money in China then

China can offer them to make money and

use that leverage to influence the

political elites then to get votes to

get China onto the council and other

things I mean there it's not just the

council there are many other

organizations UN organizations that

China has joined the aviation

organization the Industrial Development

Organisation even there they tried to

get on to intellectual property which

was another crazy attempt and totally

counterintuitive but they can do it

because they get the votes because they

have the money so this isn't an isolated

to just any one particular UN body this

is throughout the UN it's throughout the

UN the China can get the UN votes in the

General Assembly and that's how they

vote for to get people onto these

committees so they're quite influential

for example when you know countries one

country Austria wanted to you know

didn't want to vote with you on on a

particular thing or statement and they

were threatened to not be able to have

their embassy in Beijing they they were

trying to get land for their embassy in

Beijing and China threatened not to give

them that land unless they refused to

sign a particular statement in favor of

the Uighur

and Montenegro and other countries have

also received similar treatment so so

really this isn't as simple as just

China saying hey you know human rights I

don't think that's such that's not a

good idea like that would be too obvious

but they're really just kind of

subverting the entire institution that's

exactly right

and a lot of countries aren't very

favorable to human rights either all the

other authoritarian countries or quasi

authoritarian countries would just as

soon keep the UN and their human rights

mandate which dates to 1948 Universal

Declaration on Human Rights has you know

mandates that the UN support human

rights language rights electoral rights

essentially democracy yet the UN is

increasingly review no not doing that

now that China has so much influence

Russia and North Korea and China

recently co-sponsored a UN General

Assembly vote on internet sovereignty

which basically was a cover and a and

and a legitimization of their censorship

of the Internet and they got that vote

through the General Assembly so they

have a lot of clout they're able to get

onto a lot of positions they have a

UNESCO they have clout on UNESCO and you

know that's just that's how politics

works in the UN and the international

system votes UN votes are for sale and

now you said China Russia and in North

Korea correct North Korea yes well so I

mean yeah like you say when I think of

the UN I think of you know it being

dedicated to peace and human rights why

is the free world allowing regimes like

the Chinese Communist Party or Russia or

North Korea to completely subvert the

main mission of the United Nations

it goes back to the League of Nations

which was founded in 1920 and the United

Nations when it when it was founded in

1945 the idea was to include the big

dictatorships in the organization to try

to engage them to try to socialize them

civilize them if you will into being

democracies over time and they signed up

to that on in in the early documents of

the Atlantic Charter they signed up to

some of these principles Freedom of the

Seas democracy human rights and so they

indicated that they would make

improvements on that but they basically

went back on their word and over time

it's been very clear with the Soviet

Union and now especially with China that

you know these guys have no intention to

democratize in fact just the opposite

they want to make us into authoritarian

countries they want to take our

international organizations and turn

them into a tool for their own use is

that what China's goal is absolutely

they want to use the UN to promote their

own global global hegemony essentially

so what would that look like it would

look very bad there the you know we

would see increasing loss of freedom of

speech increasing loss of

democratization if you look at the

Philippines right now this is it has

gone through a process it is going

through a process of lack of you know

losing some some freedoms the press is

under attack in the Philippines the

Philippines has switched alliance from

the United States to China whereas is

sort of in the process of doing that a

lot of countries are switching their

alliance with Taiwan or recognition of

Taiwan to recognition of Beijing as the

paramount power in China and you would

you would see countries if China really

was able to increase its influence

substantially over the next 10 20 30

years you know you might see some

countries come under enough control from

Beijing that they would they would lose

rights like the Hong Kong people are

losing rights or like the leaders have

lost their rights 1 to 3 million

in concentration camps there so we don't

want to go down that road we want to

make sure that China doesn't get the

influence of the UN and or get influence

in our countries in our capitals and the

same process can happen in Washington DC

or Paris or London where businessmen

that are doing business in China are

used by China's levers to try to

influence national level politics in our

democracies so it's basically like a

numbers game it doesn't matter if the

United States the UK France and Germany

are opposed to China

turning the UN into something that

opposes freedom of speech for instance

as long as China gets enough other

countries to back what it wants yeah I

mean there there are some limitations

like the UN Security Council you know

the US France and the UK all have veto

power on the UN Security Council so

there are some technical limitations but

those limitations can be overcome in

time if if China as China gets more

influence and is willing to break rules

that the UN has and they've proven

themselves willing to break rules all

over the place so yes although all of

that can be washed away if China

achieves the influence that it is trying

to do and it and it's in the process of

that so so we really have to wake up to

this problem and and remove any ability

of China to influence our national

politics or the politics of the UN well

let's talk about China's belton Road

initiative an infrastructure project

that's been called colonialism with

Chinese characteristics China's got an

officially recognized as part of the UN

sustainable development goals how well

they're trying to shoehorn their belt

and Road initiative into the SDGs you

know by by making trying to make

linkages claim linkages but in reality

what's going on is it has nothing to do

with the SDGs the belton Road initiative

is you know primarily to offload

economic excesses that china has whether

that's they have excess infrastructure

building capacity so they offload it to

countries in the meantime they loan the

money to buy those infrastructure

projects from China they loan out that

money so now China has something like

five trillion dollars of lent out money

in the world it owns five trillion

dollars of debt from other countries you

know a lot of which has gone to fund

belt and road projects so the money

actually never leaves China it goes from

one bank account in China to another

bank account in China and a country like

Sri Lanka is left holding billions of

dollars of debt and maybe a port that's

useless for example there are mid toe to

port and it's so useless that it doesn't

it can't pay back the loans as as was

originally thought or was originally

sold to them and so what they have to do

is in the in that case they had to lease

that port back to China for 99 years you

know they had to pay they have to pay up

their collateral and often the

collateral is the project that China's

been working on and oh by the way that

project is primarily useful for getting

extracted resources from that country

back to China so it's less about

actually developing things in that

country that that country needs in the

future for example independent industry

or independent technology companies it's

more about turning these countries that

accept belt and road assistance into

mercantile sort of saturate nations that

have to then depend on resource exports

or agricultural exports this is exactly

what China sees itself in the world it

wants to see itself as the industrial

and technological global hub of the

world with all other countries feeding

it natural resources and feeding it

agriculture and then getting back in

return finished goods that China itself

manufacturers in that way

China is always on top economically

China is always on top

logically and industrially and if that's

if when that's the case all other

countries essentially lose not only

economic influence and and sovereignty

but they lose military influence in

sovereignty because if you don't have an

industrial base if you don't have a

technological base your military is


yeah it really sounds like it aligns

with the UN sustainable development

goals so you know I think a lot of

people are beginning to realize China's

power in the UN thanks to the World

Health Organization so the Chinese

regime has gone in it to to praise

China's coronavirus response shut out

Taiwan and attack critics of the party

now the US was the largest donor to the

whu-oh China only counted for a fraction

of a percent of the budget so clearly

China isn't just buying influence how is

it getting the w-h-o to do its bidding

well dr Ted Rose came on in 2017 he

when he put his name forward to me as a

candidate to become the head of w-h-o

China supported him Ethiopia had already

had billions of dollars of Chinese

investment in the country so already

China had a lever on dr Ted Rose then

dr Ted Rose comes through and he starts

supporting the belton Road initiative

back in 2017 when he first got when he

first got in and he was supporting

what's known as the silk the Silk Road

the health Silk Road or something like

that which China is now pushing after

co19 so the you know he has had levers

on him and the question is you know in

many people's minds

what is he is he personally getting

something out of this or is he just

respond responding to his leadership

back in Ethiopia who's putting lever

leverage on it there are cases where UN

a UN official the president of the UN

General Assembly John Ashe was caught

being bribed by a by a Chinese company

this is a million dollar bribe and the

bribe was to get him to

in a UN Convention Centre in Macau which

is owned by China so when he was caught

he of course was he was you know put

under FBI you know he he basically was

in court and the FBI was on him and he

was I think going to give information on

the Chinese in court and he mysteriously

died under a barbell in his apartment

and you know that to me is quite

suspicious so you guys so you see the

kind of carrot and stick approach

encapsulated in poor president John Ashe

of the UN General Assembly he officially

has initially took the carrots when he

got caught he got the stick in a big way

yeah he was like I heard like a 60 year

old man at that point and like the day

before this big trial he was found well

he they first thought he died of a heart

attack then they ruled that his throat

was crushed by a barbell it's a little


yeah likely story yeah well so I mean

the source of China's power really comes

from as you mentioned it being on the UN

Security Council a lot of people might

not know this but to the People's

Republic of China wasn't always in that

position you want to tell us a little

bit about how China found itself the

Chinese Communist Party found itself in

that position well back in the 50s you

know they we were the UN was actually in

a war with North Korea and with China in

order to protect South Korea from prior

North Korean invasion and you know by

nineteen in the 1960s the US was going

through the Vietnam War we were having a

hard time and Nixon and Kissinger by the

end of that in the early 70s we're

deciding that you know the Vietnamese

guerrillas were being funded in part and

supplied and helped by the Chinese and

the Russians and so the Kissinger and

Nixon decided that it might help to

engage with China and try to turn China

against Russia at least that

the official story so they in 1971 or

1972 they engaged and they opened up to

China then over the next few years that

decade in the seventies they let China

into the UN and they kicked they

essentially got Taiwan kicked out and

sat it's it's it's a very sad situation

in a way because Taiwan was a US ally at

that time they weren't a democracy but

they were a US ally and then in the 80s

and early 90s Taiwan democratized so if

we had actually kept Taiwan in the UN

rather than let in China and then after

we let China into the UN we let him into

the World Trade Organization which gave

them a trading access to the whole world

we in tighten we we it legitimated them

and all of a sudden trying to win from

being a pariah nation to being a you

know a global player and then you know

in 1989 they briefly had the situation

with the Tiananmen Square where they

killed thousands of civilian democracy

protesters and so there was a very very

brief moment you know where they were

again a Praia state but that only lasted

maybe a few months or a year or

something and then all the world leaders

I wanted to start doing business with

them again and then in the 90s and

2000's the business started increasing

their military expenditures started

rapidly increasing we should have known

at that point that it was a very bad

idea to continue engaging China we were

only empowering them to do bad things

and they were clearly bad actors because

they had killed their own democracy

protesters and then in 2008 when we had

the financial crash in the US China

really sensed blood and they you know

they started thinking they were on top

of the world so between 2008 and now

they've they've now started really

grabbing territory Scarborough Shoal

other places I mean they'd already done

it at 95 they grabs mischief reef in the

South China Sea but this just continued

and their power increased and their

influence increase they start funding

you can us universe

European universities giving them huge

donations they start bringing us

military guys all you know to the to

China to do boondoggles and trips and

supposedly under the training you know

to do training and then even congressmen

they bring back to China to supposedly

do training professors they bring them


so their influence just increased

massively and then they started giving

all these sweetheart deals to some of

our biggest billionaires whether it's

Schwartzman or Bloomberg or you know any

number of guys and the guys are on the

outside like Facebook for a while you

know those guys want to get in because

it's a huge market it's a quarter of the

world's economy or something like that

and they all want into that market and

so they're willing to do a lot including

I would argue represent China and

essentially lobby for China with the

highest levels of US government and so

you and and this isn't just happening in

the US this is happening all over the

world when David Cameron Prime Minister

David Cameron left office from from you

know in the in the UK he went and he

started lobbying for China promoting the

belt and road initiatives so you know

it's a it's a real problem and Kevin

Rudd of Australia former Prime Minister

of Australia also very pandering to

China publicly in his speech and his

daughter makes a lot of money in China

so you have a real problem of economic

linkages between Western democratized

political elites and Chinese business

and and that is what is causing the lack

of a response the lack of a defense to

China as it expands its territory and

influence so it's not just the UN it's

not just the UN we got it right in DC

well alright so time for some moral

equivalency what's the difference

between how the US uses the UN to push

its agenda and China's well I think the

us because it's a democracy has always

promoted democracy and human rights

around the world

our cases when the US will ally with

another country that's not a democracy

or do things that are not really

consistent with human rights but I would

argue that in those are always almost

always in support of a long-term group

goal of democracy whether that is you

know fighting fighting the Vietnamese

and in Vietnam or fighting the Taliban

and in Afghanistan or we're going to war

with Iraq these you know Iraq had just

invaded Kuwait and might have been

building nuclear weapons so there was a

there's always been a higher democratic

or human rights or stabilized the

international system goal but behind any

transgressions that the United States

might have cost China on the other hand

is is grabbing territory from countries

that are poorer than itself like Vietnam

and the Philippines they're they're

taking oil and gas from those countries

they're taking fishing rights from those

countries and so it's totally

inconsistent with their stated goal of

being a even a communist country they're

they're not at all they're not actually

a communist country they're it's a very

aggressive capitalist country that's a

dictatorship that's trying to become the

next world emperor you know become the

first world emperor really well I was

gonna ask if there's anything other

countries can do but it seems like China

has pretty much bought off all the

countries to some extent so how about

this is there anything that the small

number of people who haven't been bought

off by the Chinese Communist Party is

there anything they can do about China's

power grab well I think one thing that

people can do is they can try to sever

the link between China's money and our

politicians and the way to do that

because China's money goes through US

corporations usually the biggest ones is

to either sever the entire economy so

that's the idea of

decoupling the US economy from China

entirely which would work to sever the

link another way to do it would be to

improve campaign finance laws so not

allow countries or politicians to get

funded by foreign countries even through

corporations that are doing business

abroad so if you have a big corporation

like Bloomberg that's doing a lot of

business in China then he has a conflict

of interest a he shouldn't be able to

fund his own campaign be he shouldn't be

able to fund other campaigns now that

runs into legal issues with freedom of

speech but I would argue that you know

we shouldn't allow money to increase the

freedom of speech that some individual

has every person every citizen should

have an equal right to speech and that

means that no person is able to unfairly

expand thus the the strength of their

speech with their billions of dollars

well thank you very much for joining me

today if somebody watching would like to

learn more about you or your work where

should they go you can find me at

twitter or facebook under anders core

where all one work well thanks again for

joining me thank you Chris and thank you

for watching once again I'm Chris

Chappell see you next time


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